2. Our Debt and Salary Progression Stories as Social Workers

Taylor (00:00)
Hello everyone, welcome back to the Social Work to Wealth podcast. I'm Taylor and I'm here with my co -host Faith. And today we're going to be talking about money. Well, we're mostly going to be talking about money in almost every episode. So let's get this straight. But we're going to be talking about our debt journeys, debt numbers, salaries. This is the episode where we're going to be vulnerable about
Faith (00:12)
Yes, yes.
Mm -hmm.
Taylor (00:29)
our personal journeys because we want other social workers to come on and be vulnerable with us and for just us to be a community where we share openly. That's what this is all about is, you know, being transparent about money and kind of breaking through this taboo -ness of talking about money, is extra, extra taboo in social work, as we all know.
Faith (00:53)
Mm -hmm. Yes. Yes, it is.
Taylor (00:58)
We're going to get into the nitty gritty about that and then we're going to end with talking about money messages that we've received through social work and why they're BS essentially. So we're going to start with faith and your money journey. Where should we begin? Where do you want to begin?
Faith (01:09)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Okay. Yeah.
Yeah. think I'll just start with when I ended undergrad with my bachelor's because I think that's when I first started experiencing debt as most people do. So when I graduated from College in Illinois, a small liberal arts school, no one really knows where that is, but that's okay. And actually, technically now it's
University. you know, we got a little upgrade with our name there. But the point is, when I graduated, like many people, I had student loan debt. I was responsible for paying that back. Like, I don't have safety net. So that is something I was taking on. I honestly didn't know how I was going to do that. I
Taylor (01:43)
Nice.
Faith (02:01)
really just had the perspective this is gonna be something I'm gonna be paying off for like the next 30 years. I don't know. You know, it just felt pretty awful when I graduated with my bachelor's. was like, get a job as quickly as possible because these loans are gonna kick in in the next six months. And like, I didn't really have a plan. I just was, need to make my payments, right? It wasn't at that point, a conscious thought that I was gonna...
Taylor (02:18)
Ugh, that's so stressful.
Faith (02:30)
have a plan to pay off my debt, was just survive basically at that point. So for me at that point, I'll be real raw. Here we go with the numbers. I had when I graduated about $40 ,000 in debt for my undergrad. It was about 10 ,000 per year. But then I also had a parent plus loan, which a lot of people have, which was like another 3000. So that was probably, what is that like?
Taylor (02:33)
Mm -hmm, mm -hmm.
There we go, let's get into it.
Mm -hmm.
Faith (02:58)
$44 ,000 in debt. And then I also had my car loan. So that was another, I think, 10 ,000. So then what is that? Like $54 ,000 worth of debt. And it's just me, right? At that point, I'm not married. I don't have another income. It's just me. And so I just remember feeling really, really overwhelmed, not sure what to do. Just make your payments, get a job as soon as possible. So my first job out of college paid,
Taylor (03:08)
Mm
Faith (03:25)
was working for a church and I made $30 ,000 a year. So not a lot for 50, you know, 50 plus thousand dollars in debt. And that was in, that's a great 2012. I graduated with my undergrad in 2012. So I remember just, could, I could make, make my rent. I could make my car payment and I could make my loan payment. And that was like it.
Taylor (03:29)
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm -hmm.
What year was that?
Okay. Okay.
Faith (03:53)
Right? I didn't have much after that, much wiggle room. So I did that for about three years -ish. I was working for churches in children's ministry and decided that was not for me. I ended up getting married, moved to Wisconsin because my husband was finishing his PhD. And I started working for the Wisconsin Credit Union League, which I shared in the first episode.
Taylor (03:54)
Mm -hmm.
Faith (04:22)
that job I made 35 ,000. So still barely making ends meet. My husband, he was getting his PhD. He made like 20 ,000 a year. So we were like rice and beans. Like we had we didn't go out. We were just make, you know, we're just surviving. so at that point I was just making my regular payments. It wasn't like I was paying more on my loans or I was making any dent in my loans at all.
Taylor (04:33)
Hehehehe. Mmmmm.
Faith (04:50)
So I ended up realizing through, was living in Wisconsin that I want to go back to grad school and I want to get my master's. And a big part of that was I can't take on any more debt because I can't afford it. I can't afford it. So if I'm to get my master's, I have to do this in a way that is actually going to be considerate of all this debt. So for the first year and I
Taylor (05:04)
Yeah.
Faith (05:15)
made sure to live in Wisconsin for a year so I could get residency, right? Because then your tuition is a lot, is much more affordable if you can get residency in the state. And Wisconsin has a one -year rule. You have to live there for a year. And then you can apply get, is that? Like your tuition is the state tuition, in -state tuition. That's what I'm looking for. So that was key for me because then my grad
Taylor (05:19)
Mmm.
In state. Yeah. Yeah.
Faith (05:42)
program was 20 grand. wasn't, it was 10 ,000 a year. Mm -hmm. Like 11, 11 ,000 a year. And so.
Taylor (05:46)
Dude, it was 10 ,000 a year? my gosh. That's wild coming from someone who is out of state.
Faith (05:54)
huh. So that's my first little tip is like, if you want to go to grad school, live in the state for a year or whatever the requirements are for that state that you're really interested in, and then apply to the state and get in -state tuition because it's a lot more affordable. And Wisconsin has a state statute that they have to do that. Like it's regulated by the state. have to offer affordable education to their residents. So.
Taylor (06:09)
my gosh.
Did you save up $20 ,000?
Faith (06:23)
No, I had saved up about two thirds of what I needed. So I saved 16 ,000. So I was still short for my second year. So I was like, okay, I can make it through the first year. I can pay for half of the second year. I have no idea how I'm going to pay for that last amount. my husband and I had talked about it extensively and he's like, just go for it. We'll figure it out. So
whole goal was no more debt, no more debt, right? That's my whole goal. So I worked all the way, when I was in grad school, I worked a job. I as an admissions counselor, and then I worked what's called the People Program at UW -Madison. And they had, my goal, my second year was to get an assistantship or some sort of way that my second year could be paid for and I could have a stipend. And I got one, which was awesome. So I ended up working for the People Program and I just did after school.
Taylor (07:05)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Faith (07:14)
for underprivileged kids in Wisconsin two days a week. And we did some tutoring and some educational programs for them. And the people program paid for the second year of my master's and gave me a living stipend. So that was huge for me.
Taylor (07:31)
So you didn't have to use your own money to pay for part of the second year.
Faith (07:33)
No, no. So I could save that part and we used that to pay off the car loan. one of the things we did was that rolling debt concept. You pay the highest interest first on your loans and then you, maybe I'll get into that another time, the rolling debt kind of approach. we used that strategy, which is like loans.
Taylor (07:49)
Mm -hmm, the
Faith (07:54)
loan payments, let's say we're 500 bucks, even though I paid off a certain amount of that loan, I keep paying $500 so that you're always paying that amount each month and it's going towards the highest interest rate loan and then you snowball it down. So we can get into the details of that another time. But the point is,
Taylor (08:04)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Faith (08:12)
I graduated my masters with my masters, I still had, what did I have? We had paid down the loans a little bit, not, I mean, not much. And so I still had, we were, we ended up moving to Switzerland and when we moved to Switzerland, I still had about $37 ,000 left in, left in, And, so at that point, my salary, when I was
Taylor (08:22)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Faith (08:38)
Working for the credit union was $35 ,000 and then it was $20 ,000 in grad school the first year. Second year was $25 That was my living stipend and they paid for my tuition. And then my first year in Switzerland, was $90 ,000. So it jumped massively. then my last three years, was over $100 ,000 I was making per year. And so within the first two years of living in Switzerland, I paid off.
Taylor (08:53)
she made a big jump. my gosh.
Faith (09:08)
the $37 ,000 that I had left. And that was, you know, getting into the pandemic time where we also didn't have the interest, like the interest was cut and a lot of people stopped paying at federal. So the interest rate, cause I paid off my Parent PLUS loan first. Cause that had the highest interest rate and it's private, right? So I think that's private. PLUS loan private? I'm pretty sure it is. Okay.
Taylor (09:11)
Mm -hmm.
You had federal loans.
Not all of them. My mom had a parent postal and that was federal.
Faith (09:35)
Okay. Maybe mine was federal then too. I, I'm not sure. then I, my goal, like once I started to actually have a livable wage and make some decent money, my goal was to pay off my loans first. And then I would start saving towards other things like we wanted to get a house and things like that. so I did that and I kept paying during the pandemic so that I had no interest on them. And yeah, by 31.
Taylor (09:59)
Mm -hmm.
Faith (10:03)
I was debt free. So I am now debt free. don't have any. And I remember the physical weight being lifted off of me when I finally got those loans paid off. It was awesome. It was so awesome because you just feel so free and you feel so, yeah, free, free. that
Taylor (10:11)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, definitely. Right, I know, that's It feels like such a burden.
Faith (10:32)
That's it. So it took me about years to pay off all my debt. and the only reason, yeah, about 55 ,000. And the only reason why I really was able to do it is because I actually made increase my income. mean, sometimes it's just that simple, right? So
Taylor (10:38)
and was about like fifty five, fifty five thousand.
Increased your income. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah, there's only there's only so much that you can cut sometimes when if you're making such a low salary, it's like, you know, people say I feel like in the the general personal finances like, well, just cut your expenses and, you know, stop eating out and stop buying coffees. And it's like, OK, I've done that. Now, now what? Like I've cut all that I can cut. Sometimes you just got to make more.
Faith (10:58)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Taylor (11:18)
funny.
Faith (11:18)
Well, yeah, you have to more money. And again, in another episode, we could get into like how I worked abroad, but it's about increasing your salary and to the point where you can live and pay off your loans. Like you can't just, sometimes it's one or the other, right? So, yeah, so that's my debt kind of journey. Yeah.
Taylor (11:27)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, I want to get into the, I think this is the time to get into like your strategy for paying that debt off. Yeah, like let's do it.
Faith (11:46)
Okay. Yeah. So my strategy was, and okay, so I've mixed feelings now about this, but when my husband and I got married, we took a financial class together. So we were really aligned on together on what our money was going to go towards. And I think that that's really important if you're in a relationship with somebody to be
Taylor (12:02)
Mm -hmm.
Faith (12:16)
aligned on your financial goals. So I think it was possible. That's ideal. I think it was possible for me to make these strides with my loans because my spouse was supportive of it and aligned with it and it was willing to beans and rice. So we could pay more on the debt, right? So we could pay more. So the part that I mixed feelings about is that we took
Taylor (12:17)
Mm -hmm.
Mm
Faith (12:43)
class called Financial Peace with David Ramsey. Not a huge fan of David Ramsey now, but no. No, we do not. We do not. No.
Taylor (12:49)
No, no, we did not subscribe to the Dave Ramsey values. know people say people that don't follow him anymore and you know, used to or whatever. It's like sometimes he's just the intro to personal finance for some for whatever reason, you know, he's he's big and he's everywhere. And so I get it. he he gets people into into the world. So I'll give him that. But he.
Like I said last episode, this community, this podcast, we're not guilting, we're not shaming. That is completely the opposite of what he does. So I'm going to just leave it at that.
Faith (13:24)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. yeah. But we took his class because we did. We were young and we were very much in a different mindset at that time. We have evolved a lot since then. But of the strategies that they talked about was this snowball kind of strategy, the snowball method. And so,
Taylor (13:46)
Snowball method, yes, okay. I forgot they do really like that one.
Faith (13:50)
Yeah. And so it worked for us and this idea that every dollar has a purpose, which I think, although I don't agree with David Ramsey, I do think that that makes sense. making sure you doing a budget, right? Doing a budget, making sure every dollar has a purpose and making goals and committing to being debt free. So that was like really, actually really good things. And so when we took his class, one of the things that I learned
Taylor (14:01)
Mm Like when you're doing your budget. Yeah. Yeah.
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Faith (14:20)
was just because, to pay off the highest interest rate first. And then also once that loan is done, so I paid the Parent PLUS loan first, right, $3 ,000, got it done. But once that loan was paid off, I didn't just say, cool, now I have 250 bucks to use now in my budget for whatever I want. I used that $250 and I applied it to the next loan. So I did not, my loan payment,
Taylor (14:45)
Mm -hmm.
Faith (14:48)
amount of money I was giving to my loans never changed, no matter how much my loan went down. I wasn't following like, hey, you've paid off this much, so you only owe $300 instead of $500 now. Now I just kept doing the same amount, which helped me get the loan down faster. So that was my strategy.
Taylor (14:51)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah. And I know that they, yeah, I know that they, Dave Ramsey really likes the snowball method because you start with like the lowest amount. I don't know. mean, I don't, it doesn't sound like this is how you, you guys actually like did it, but like typically it's like you start with the lowest loan amount. So it's like, say you have all these different loans and one of them's $300.
Faith (15:18)
Maybe I applied it wrong. I don't know. That's how I did it.
Taylor (15:29)
It's like, you really try to aggressively pay that one off first because they feel like the, just the success, that feeling of success of paying off one of your loans, it's just gives you motivation and whatever. so it's like, once you pay off that loan, you still take whatever payment you were, whatever you were put towards putting towards that loan, you put it to the next one, put it to the next one. So that's kind of why they.
Faith (15:38)
will be rewarding and you're more likely to.
that and you apply it to the next one.
Taylor (15:53)
They call it the snowball, but that's awesome. I mean, that like what you guys carried? Is that the strategy you continue to use even when you're in Switzerland?
Faith (15:56)
Yeah, so I did that.
Yeah, in Switzerland, I need to do that because I just making so much more that I just made huge payments, big chunks. So I just paid it off real fast when I was in Switzerland. But until then, when I felt like I was more tight, when the budget was a lot more tight, I definitely used that strategy. And then also just I, I,
Taylor (16:13)
Mm -hmm.
Hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Faith (16:27)
was intentional about saving and not taking on more debt. I'm not doing it, I can't do it, I will do whatever I can, I will work, I will do whatever I can to not take on more student debt. And that was a big, big, big piece of it for me. Another really important thing was for me to pay it off. That made a lot of sense for me. Well, didn't want to. Yeah.
Taylor (16:30)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Why did you want to pay it off? Like, was that even... like, how did you even get to that point of being like, okay, I want to pay off this debt. what happened? You know what mean?
Faith (16:58)
I think for me, I don't like owing anyone anything. I just, it's scary. Debt is scary to me. And I just, from my upbringing have seen how insecurity and debt can be really crippling and destabilizing and scary. And don't want to get into that because that's my parents' story, but like I'm the youngest of five and we didn't have much. And so I'm like,
Taylor (17:04)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Faith (17:25)
I do not want debt. do not want credit card debt. I can see how that is just so suffocating and creates tension and creates so many problems. And so I just was really motivated to not have to, I don't want to have to deal with that and wanting to get out from underneath that. back, I probably wouldn't have gone to Elmhurst College. probably, if I could have redid it, I wouldn't have gone there. I would have picked a state school and done a better, a different tuition and state schools are great. So.
Taylor (17:28)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Hmmmm
Mm -hmm.
Faith (17:53)
But I was young. I didn't know what I was doing. So just like a lot of people, it's like you get in, you're excited, you go for it. So me, was, see that as scary and it holds you back in life. And I didn't want the stress in my life. So it was like, I'm going to push now and endure this discomfort now so that in the longterm I can have what I want in life, which is to be free from this. So.
Taylor (17:57)
Just like many of us. Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm. Yeah, do you feel like during our journey right now, which I'll get into in a bit, but just like we're trying to enjoy our lives while we're doing it. Do you feel like you were doing that or were you just like, we're miserable, we're eating rice and beans, like we're paying, you did, mm.
Faith (18:25)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, I want to hear your journey next. Yeah.
No.
We took the miserable route.
for us, feel like my husband was making so little because he was a PhD student. So he got a living stipend also, but it was like 20 grand a year. And I was making so little that there was, we were already kind of in this mindset of like, we're in grad school, we have to live on a budget, it's going to be rice and beans. And so that mindset was already like there. So it was just easier.
Taylor (19:01)
Mmm.
Mm -hmm.
Faith (19:08)
don't know for us, as long as we were on the same page, went that route. I don't really know if it was a conscious thought or just an asset. It just was what it was and we had to just do it.
Taylor (19:12)
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Totally, and that's the Dave Ramsey way, right? You're kind of miserable, you eat. I mean, that's his, like, eat rice and beans, but did you guys actually eat rice and beans? like, you did? Like, legitimately you ate rice
Faith (19:30)
Mm -hmm.
Well, we like rice and beans, so we would make it for food. But no, we weren't only eating rice and beans. We went out with friends, we would get drinks, we would eat out and stuff like that. But we weren't going on any vacations or anything. even if we, I guess my point is, even if we wanted to, we would have never been able to afford that. There was no way making 40 grand together in grad school.
Taylor (19:45)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Okay, okay.
Yeah, that's fair.
Yeah. Yeah.
Faith (20:02)
means we would be able to go on a vacation. There's no way it was, it was just in school, school, school, you know, it consumes your whole life anyways. So, you know, yeah. So it was definitely just bunker down Switzerland, totally different. We didn't need to do that. We didn't need to do that. So yeah.
Taylor (20:02)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, yeah, because he was getting paid, you were getting paid, really good salary, yeah. And now, as a private practice practitioner, making over 100k.
Faith (20:30)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. We can get into, maybe we'll do salary progressions next, but I'm curious what is your debt journey look like, where you guys are at, how it worked for you.
Taylor (20:37)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Yeah, so let me just even bring it up right now. So right now, you know, as of the last time I updated this was I really keep like a detailed kind of tracker of our debt. Because I've been sharing it on social media, so it's been helpful for me. as of last month, we have $212 ,000 still of debt.
Faith (20:57)
Mm
Taylor (21:11)
When we started this whole journey, this was in, you know, beginning of January 2022. We, when I was like, okay, wow, people are, people are retiring early, they're paying off their debt. they're doing things they don't have to, people aren't living with this debt until they die. It's, it's possible. and so I really, I took inventory of our debt. had 277 ,000.
Faith (21:27)
Mm -hmm.
Taylor (21:39)
dollars of debt. And 127 of that was mine from undergrad. went to, I was out of state. That's where it all started. Not really, you know, educated about student loans. I was like, yeah, I'll take out the max, take out the max, whatever. And so yeah, I ended all of my loans are from
Faith (21:39)
Hmm.
Mm
Taylor (22:05)
undergrad, ended up with $127 ,000. And grad school, thankfully feeling so blessed that I got a scholarship for grad school and a living stipend. So my, don't have any student loans for grad school. And I didn't even like, I applied for this scholarship when I was applying for UW Madison. And I already had
Faith (22:19)
Hmm.
Taylor (22:33)
At the time that I got notified, I already had loans in my account for grad school. They kind of told me late. And I remember I got this email. I was at my internship, my first internship with the hospice agency. And I showed my supervisor, I was like, look at this email I just got. Apparently I got this scholarship.
Faith (22:51)
Yeah.
Taylor (22:59)
And I was like, is this real? She was like, I mean, it looks legit, you know? I emailed back. It was Tracy. I emailed her back. was like, can I talk to you? Can I talk to someone on the phone? And so I talked to her and she told me, yeah, you got this scholarship. It was a diversity scholarship and your whole grad school will be paid for and you will get a stipend. I had to go to these quarterly meetings and I was like,
Faith (23:00)
Whoa.
Yeah.
Yeah.
you
Taylor (23:24)
Holy crap. was seriously nuts. It would have been $90 ,000 that I was planning on taking out, but honestly it was just again, out of state. And I wanted to go to grad school. It's really unfortunate that we have to do this. We have to take out loans to... I mean, we don't have to. You saved, but how am I gonna...
Faith (23:25)
Wow, Taylor. What a relief.
Hmm.
But the amount I'm saving is so, there's no way I would have been able to save for 90 ,000. Like let's just, that's off the table. That's not happening. That's not happening.
Taylor (23:53)
Totally. Yeah, yeah, it's so unfortunate for us to we want more education and we have to pay just astronomical amount of money for to do that. just, it's so frustrating. anyways, that was an amazing opportunity and just like, yeah, so.
Faith (24:13)
It really is.
Incredible.
Taylor (24:22)
I got a stipend. also, for the VA, I got paid during, I did a summer internship instead of doing it throughout the whole year. So I actually didn't get my stipend for the first year. For that summer in between the first year and second year of grad school, I didn't get my stipend. so me working at the VA for my internship, getting paid was huge because I wasn't going to have any money.
Faith (24:50)
Wow.
Taylor (24:52)
And so yeah, graduating 2018, I had $127 ,000 of debt, all student loans. then, know, Brett has student loans from his undergrad and he's in grad school now. He thankfully also has a full ride scholarship, which is amazing. we had to take out a little bit of money.
But when we moved in together, we had to take out a little bit of money for living expenses, but when we moved in together in 2020, it's like, we have like 200 and something worth of debt. then we weren't really in tune with what we were doing, what we were spending. We had credit cards, we ended up taking out, we ended up
opening a home equity line of credit so that we could buy a new fence, which ended up being $16 ,000 for a new fence, which is absolute.
Faith (25:56)
our fence blew down. Our fence blew down in a windstorm the other, I don't know, month. And it was like, the quotes were like eight grand, 10 grand, 12 grand. We ended up just doing it ourselves. Yeah. I could tell you that story another time, but yeah, we ended up doing it ourselves, which was only 500, 500 bucks. Cause yeah, it was like 500 bucks for us to do it.
Taylor (26:07)
Seriously. Amazing.
Holy moly.
That's, my gosh. Yeah. mean, like looking back, the fence, it looks great. It looks great. But this person, you know, that neighbor got a new fence. that neighbor had a new fence. And we, our fence partially was broken. So was like, okay, this is something that had been recommended to us. Did we actually need to do it that year? Probably not. I think we did it in, we did it like early 2022.
Faith (26:27)
You got to do it. Yeah, I'm sure it looks awesome.
Yeah.
Ha!
Taylor (26:49)
when we were still kind of, you know, we were looking at our finances and starting to make changes, but we, we honestly really didn't need to do that. So anyways, fast forward to like July, 2022, when I was taking inventory of like, okay, we are not taking out any more loans. we had 16 ,000 for HELOC. had 700 for Appeloton and then our furniture, we had about $500 left. And then,
Faith (26:52)
huh. Yeah.
Taylor (27:17)
You know, his student loans totaled to about $133 ,000 and then my student loans totaled to about $127 ,000. writing all that out was like, ugh, so hard. Just, it's just a lot of money, you know? It's like, my God.
Faith (27:32)
How did you feel? Yeah, how did you feel when you did that? It's so hard.
It's a lot of money.
Taylor (27:42)
really and then like just the feelings of regret and guilt like why did I take out this much loans just
Faith (27:49)
Well, in people, yeah, that makes sense. And shame, sometimes people feel shame too. And it's definitely not, definitely not ours to hold shame. Mm -mm. Mm -mm.
Taylor (27:54)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Seriously.
It's not a reflection of who you are as a person. Absolutely not. last year we took out a little bit of loans because Brett had some school things that we needed money for. And then in terms of, you know, we're not paying on his loans. We're only paying on my loans right now because he's in school and they're on deferment, minor due.
Faith (28:08)
Yeah, where you at now?
Yeah, sense.
Taylor (28:29)
and right now we are at two hundred and twelve thousand. So we've paid off. mean, like when I subtract what we had to what we have now, it will, it says we've paid off forty seven thousand dollars. However, because of interest and because of the, the extra amount that we took out for him.
Faith (28:47)
Wow.
Mm
Taylor (28:56)
We've paid off $64 ,000, but because of interest and some more money that we've had to take out, like, and it looks like we've paid off $47 ,000, which, okay. so yeah, that's a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah. And Bret's been in school for this whole time. So it's mostly been through us saving. He did take a break and went to,
Faith (28:59)
Hmm.
That's a lot of money that you've paid off.
Mm -hmm.
Taylor (29:25)
He went to Alaska for a summer and the money that he made there, because we had been used to living just on my salary alone, all of that money that he made, we were able to pay off our debt, put towards our debt. So right now we're just sitting with only student loans. We paid off all of our non -consumer, our consumer debt, which is just credit cards and
Faith (29:41)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Taylor (29:52)
furniture and you know the fence blah blah blah. So we're just sitting with student loan money right now. I also got a I applied two years ago for a loan repayment program through the state and so because I am categorized as a behavioral health worker and I work with and I am a part of a underrepresented population as a black woman I have
Faith (30:03)
Yes!
Taylor (30:20)
They are giving me money to pay my student loans off, which is amazing. They're giving me like $88 ,000. Nuts! I know. So I... Yeah, yeah, it's this... I know, it's last year I got money and then this year. So by the time I am done with all of that, I personally will have about 40 ,000 left, which...
Faith (30:24)
That is so awesome. is incredible. That is incredible.
Yes, that is huge.
Taylor (30:47)
I started with $127 ,000, I'm gonna have about $40 ,000 left.
Faith (30:49)
That's so impressive. Like, how does that feel?
Taylor (30:54)
it feels amazing. It feels amazing. yeah, we'll continue with that. And our goal is to be debt free by 2028. So, or like, you know, summer 2028.
Faith (30:55)
Amazing, amazing,
I love that goal.
Taylor (31:13)
So we still got a lot of work to do, but Brett graduates from grad school next year. He'll be making a little bit of income. And because we've been living on my income for the last four years, we're pretty confident that we can live on my income and just use, or whatever, live on his income, live on my income, and use our extra money to finish out our debt. We're We're ready to hit, yeah, so.
Faith (31:22)
Hmm.
Yeah.
That's awesome. That is so awesome. And having a plan and having who's your teammate and you're on the same page and pushing towards the goals, so huge. That's so good. That's so cool. Yeah.
Taylor (31:51)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, no, it feels really good, but it also is possible because I make $96 ,000. Like, let's talk about that now. Let's talk about that now. Salary progression in social work. So I started my first job, I made $40 ,000. That was in 2018 as a community mental health social worker. Like...
Faith (31:59)
Yeah.
Mm -hmm. So suck that salary progression. Yeah. Yeah Yeah
Taylor (32:19)
$40 ,000? How dare you?
Faith (32:22)
I don't, how dare you? It's honestly laughable. It's laughable. In 2018, okay, so to put that in perspective, 20, well, I guess it was 2015, I was making $35 ,000 at a credit union. So you have a master's degree, right? You have experience and you're only making $5 ,000 more than what I was making.
what, four years before that time and I had my bachelor's and I had no experience in the industry. I was just like, I need a job, like, hi, you know, just kind of this, that's disgusting. It's 40 grand.
Taylor (32:54)
Mm -hmm.
It's seriously ridiculous. Like, mm -hmm, yeah. And people are still getting paid that. Like, I just brought up the salary list. I just brought up the salary list. If you're new to this podcast and this is your first episode, I made a salary list for social workers to submit their salaries so we can, you know, see some real social work salaries. So just brought it up. Right now we have...
Faith (33:13)
No, people are still getting paid this.
Hmm.
Yes.
Taylor (33:32)
703 salaries that are on this sheet, which is amazing. And it's unacceptable that I see a $48 ,000 salary for someone who is working in the substance use community. They live in South Carolina. That's ridiculous. I see another one, 43 ,000 living in Virginia. I mean, it's unreal that this is still, these are still salaries that are like,
Faith (33:36)
Amazing.
Mm -mm. Mm -mm.
Mm -mm.
Taylor (34:02)
being offered to people.
Faith (34:04)
master level, sometimes, know, LCSW is also like, we need to be making significantly more money, not just a little bit significantly more. So, okay. Tell me about, keep going. Sally progression. So you start at 40 grand. We're all outraged. This is, we are outraged by this. Yeah, exactly. Okay. So you're making 40 grand in 2018. This is only, doesn't say.
Taylor (34:14)
Mm -hmm.
Okay, so 40, so I mean, we're pissed.
2018. I know. And I mean, at that time, it's like I wasn't, I wasn't saving. I didn't know what I was doing with my money. I had like a little bit of credit card debt, but it wasn't, it wasn't crazy. mean, I don't even know, you know, I know, I don't think, but I wasn't really like intuitive with my finances at that point. And then fast forward to 2019, I got
Faith (34:33)
Okay.
No. Could you save?
Taylor (34:58)
a job as a hospice social worker. I got offered $56 ,000. I was feeling good. my gosh, $60 ,000 raise. was like, who is she? Then I go buy a new car.
Faith (35:04)
Okay. Good. Yeah.
And you're like, wait,
Taylor (35:21)
My payment was $300 something dollars. So nothing, not, not terrible, but I did have a, I had a Mustang. grew up with a Mustang and I had it for about what? got it in like 2018. I had it for a little like 10 years at least. And as a hospice social worker, you know, driving around, like I needed a car that had better gas mileage. So.
Faith (35:31)
girl.
You
Taylor (35:47)
I sold the Mustang to one of my friend's parents and so that helped me with a down payment.
Faith (35:50)
Aww.
I your Mustang in grad school. I remember that was like, yeah, hell yeah. I was driving my little Honda Civic. I'm like, yeah, it was a nice, she was red, right? It was red. It was red, yeah.
Taylor (35:58)
It was, I got this Honda and I remember I did, yes, yes, I still have it. Still have it going on six years. No, five years, but I actually went to...
Faith (36:07)
Good responsible choice, Honda. Yeah.
Taylor (36:19)
I brought a pre -approval loan from my credit union because that's what I read online. I brought my pre -approval from credit union. I had a great interest rate and they were shocked that I was prepared with this because what they're trying to offer is just scammy and slimy or whatever. Anyways,
Faith (36:24)
Go to a credit union. Please go to credit. We will have a whole episode about credit unions, but go ahead.
You
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Taylor (36:48)
That's something that I like thinking, looking back, I'm like, I didn't need a new car. I could have got a used car, blah, blah. but it is what it is. So then 2020 I moved. So I got a new job as a hospital social worker because I moved and then I had to move again. And then I increased my salary by 10 K. So then in 2020, September, 2020, I started at a hospital, which intense.
pandemic, you know, like COVID in the hospital, it was wild, but I got offered $66 ,650. And that was me making, I want to say $32 an hour. And they had initially offered me $31 and I negotiated one more dollar. Before I
Faith (37:38)
Hell yeah.
Taylor (37:42)
got the final offer, I had to go and shadow the, you know, I mean, I didn't have to, but it was like offered like, do you want to go shadow the social workers and like see if this would be like a good fit and you know, if you like the environment or whatever. And I remember my now good friend, Dora, she, I was shadowing her and we were like alone and she was like, so I make $31 or I don't even remember what she made. was like, but
I make this, you need to negotiate when they offer you blah, blah, blah. And I was like, okay. And I remember going home and I was like, yeah. So I talked to this girl Dora and she was talking to me about money and it was really awesome. so, shout out Dora, my bestie. so that was, that was, I loved it. I loved that she did that. So yeah, anyways.
Faith (38:19)
Mm.
Shout out Dora.
That's what we need to be doing for each other. So excellent. Yeah.
Taylor (38:37)
giving us the inside scoop. So was able to negotiate to $32. And then we did some organizing within our department, which we're going to talk about again. I feel like we keep saying that we're going to talk about that another episode, like.
Faith (38:58)
I know we do keep saying that, but like we are y 'all, we are. And there's this amazing story. It's an, yeah. there's, Taylor has an amazing story of how her whole social work team at a hospital basically advocated for higher salaries. It's an amazing story and it worked. You ended up leaving though in the process, but.
Taylor (39:02)
There's just so much, there's just so much to talk about. But yeah.
We did.
I did end up leaving, but I ended with my salary after, you know, I was there for one year, so I got a raise and whatever. So I ended my salary there was 70, 75 ,000. That was in 2021. And then January, 2022, I started a new job and I was offered 79 ,000. I was like, okay, 4K.
Faith (39:29)
Yeah, where'd you end?
Okay.
Taylor (39:46)
4k increase, that's cool. I was wanting to leave anyways and I was excited about the work. So fast forward to a raise, our department, I got into this role at a really good time because our managers were already kind of fighting for like some salary increase. For us, very different kind of managerial
perspective on our salaries compared to my last job. My last job, our manager is telling us we're replaceable, but this job, my manager is like, you guys deserve to be paid well. I know that you have to come to work because you have to, because you need to pay your bills and we're all lucky enough to at least be doing something that is in line with our values, but I think that you need to get paid more.
Faith (40:17)
Hmm. Ooh.
Yeah.
Taylor (40:38)
Who is this person? She's amazing. So today I make $96 ,700. So that's, that's, that's what we're in here. And I'm a medical, I work in the medical field. Like I'm a medical social worker on the West coast. I understand. And looking at like the salary list of all these other social workers, you know, of all these social workers who have submitted their salaries.
Faith (40:38)
You're
That's awesome. That's...
field.
Yeah.
Taylor (41:07)
Working in hospitals is not always working in the medical field is not always the way to increase your salary because there's some people who are, you know, in the South that are like one of those salaries that I read off earlier, 48 ,000. She works in the hospital. She lives in South Carolina. So definitely depends on like your region and stuff. But I would say in my experience that West Coast medical social workers make more.
Faith (41:13)
Mm.
Mm -hmm.
They make more, right?
Taylor (41:36)
money. mean, what's more, we do make good salaries. Yeah, our cost of living is higher. That's very true. So yeah, think it was one thing I was like, this, feel like switching jobs, I think that's one thing that's fairly well known is the highest increase in your salary that
Faith (41:37)
your cost of living is higher too.
Yeah, it really is. So, okay. Yeah.
Taylor (42:01)
Generally speaking that you will get is when you switch jobs.
Faith (42:02)
Yeah.
huh. And actually your highest salary increase was when you switched your first job, the $16 ,000 bump, 40 ,000 and you switched one, two, three, four times.
Taylor (42:12)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
I switched... yeah, this is my fourth job out of... I switched three times I guess.
Faith (42:22)
Yeah.
fourth.
three times, but four jobs. three salary, but different salary increases in what six years, three different social work jobs in last six years since you got your MSW. So I mean, yeah, that's probably what it takes is to switch jobs, advocate. I mean, you ended up leaving a job. So to get a higher salary or to advocate for higher salaries. So sometimes it takes a bit, takes too much to, it's too much.
Taylor (42:38)
Mm -hmm.
That's wild.
It's too much. It's exhausting. mean, even when we were advocating at my last workplace, it's like, I'm emailing this union rep and I'm setting up meetings with us outside of work. And it's just and the stress and just feeling frustrated and that wears on you on top of the hard work that we all do. And so I wouldn't...
Faith (42:58)
It's exhausting.
Hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Taylor (43:21)
say of just just just organize at your job because it's not that easy. It's it's very hard. And we were having meetings on meetings with our boss and boss's boss and HR. And it was just it was definitely a lot. I am happy to say that it was successful, but it's like it won't always be. And sometimes you just don't have the energy for that. It's just like, got it. I got to go or, you know,
Faith (43:25)
It's not that easy.
Mm -hmm.
Taylor (43:48)
something on the side that's bringing in more income but yeah so let's hear about your salaries.
Faith (43:51)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, my salaries are a little bit different because I worked abroad so When I graduated I graduated in 2018 with a master's social work took the test and then we flew to Switzerland as of August so graduated in June what May June and then we were in Switzerland in August so for me I never worked in the United States as a social worker
Taylor (44:22)
Mm -hmm, you're right. Mm, dang. You're right. my gosh, I forgot about that.
Faith (44:23)
earning a really low salary. So that also contributed massively to me being able to pay off my debt and my experience as a mental health provider. So when I was in Switzerland, I worked in two capacities. I worked doing private practice and I also worked in schools, international schools, English speaking international schools providing mental health therapy, which was kind of a new model for them. They didn't do that there. And so I kind of pitched the idea.
And then they brought me on like as part -time staff through the school. And then the other side of my work was I worked privately doing mental health therapy. And I'll get in, I know we keep saying this, but we'll do a whole, like, can you work as a social worker abroad? The answer is yes. And we'll get into that later. But the first year I made about 90 ,000 between the two. And then the second year,
Taylor (45:11)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Faith (45:22)
I probably made, I don't know, these are estimates, like 110 ,000. And then the final, that's Swiss francs. So US dollars would probably be, the Swiss franc is stronger than the US dollar. So maybe like 130 ,000. I don't really, that's probably way too big of a jump. I don't.
Taylor (45:27)
Mmm, is that US dollars?
Wait, I'm gonna do...
Faith (45:46)
really know and it changes all the time, but the Swiss franc is historically stronger than the US dollar by like 10 cents ish. So I don't really know what it was in USD. It was in Swiss francs. So 90 in Swiss francs and then also like 111, then it was like 120 and then it was like another, it was like 120. So it was over hundred thousand for three years and then like 90 ish. so,
Taylor (45:53)
Okay. Okay.
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Faith (46:11)
really opened up the doors for me to be able to pay off And I don't know how I would have paid off the debt that I've paid off if I hadn't had a salary that quick out of the gate after my master's. And that's how it, in my view, that's how it should be for social workers. They should be able to make a livable wage and pay off their debt or have some sort of
Taylor (46:16)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Faith (46:39)
like some sort of payment program where if you're going to work for two years for the state or you're going to work for two years in behavioral health, your student loans are taken care of because the profession is so stressful and the burnout is so high. Like I really don't believe we'll survive as a profession if we don't pay our workers more. So some might call that dramatic. I don't think that's dramatic. I think that is what it is.
Taylor (46:48)
Yep.
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Hehehehehe
Faith (47:08)
So then when I got back to the U .S., I knew I was gonna take a pay cut and I was really anticipating that and I was like, I don't like this. But I knew that this was kind of like a dream. know, this isn't, this, my experience was very much not the average experience for a social worker. And so I was like, I had a lot of feelings about it, but I was like, we're going back to the U .S. And my first, so I worked for one year at a clinic and I made $69 ,000 at the clinic.
Taylor (47:15)
Mmm.
norm. Yeah.
Faith (47:38)
This was in 2023, 29, 69 ,000 ish about. And that was me seeing probably six more clients than I would have in Switzerland. And I made like half of what I made in Switzerland. So I was pretty disappointed. I kind of knew it was going to happen, but then experiencing it is like,
Taylor (47:40)
Wait, that was a private practice clinic? You made 60, what'd say?
Faith (48:07)
totally different. Everybody knows, yeah, it's totally different. So I was really upset about that. And I knew I couldn't maintain that. And so I started my own private practice and my salary went back up to around where it was in Switzerland. So I'm actually making more, but it went up significantly within the first few months I started. So for me,
Taylor (48:32)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Faith (48:38)
Private practice has also been a way that I've been able to make a livable wage. And I really think that's a livable wage for somebody with their masters. I also have my LCSW, which I added to my, I think you also are an LCSW as well, right, Taylor? Yeah. So historically when you become an LCSW, you also get paid more, which helps.
Taylor (48:45)
Mm -hmm.
Mm
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Yeah, I did get a little pay raise when I was at the hospital when I passed my exam. Yeah, so that was cool.
Faith (49:03)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
And so for me in Switzerland, I never charged insurance. It was all private pay for work. in the United States, I started charging insurance. So I didn't really know the insurance world. So opening my own private practice a year of kind of getting an understanding of how insurance works. And because I had my LCSW, now I can charge insurance where right out the gate with your masters, if you're not at LCSW, I don't believe you can charge insurance.
Taylor (49:33)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Faith (49:33)
So there's a lot of barriers still for new social workers. So yeah, that's where I'm at now.
Taylor (49:42)
Wow, that's amazing. yeah, I think it's also, you know, there's two conversations here I want to say that many of us still need to get paid way more. is a fact. But I also think there's another side of this where there are some of us who are getting paid well. So,
Faith (49:47)
Yeah.
more.
Taylor (50:10)
I think that's something that I've shared recently not all social workers are struggling. And so, you know, I hope that that can be maybe a light for some people of like, social work isn't, it's not, yeah, you don't,
Faith (50:22)
Mm Mm -hmm.
So I get what you're, yeah. It's not all terrible and negative and like, ugh. But it's not where it needs to be by any means. And it should be, like, I really feel like you and I are a little bit of the exception, not the rule. And I think that we should have opportunities for social workers. We should in general be making more money. The base pay should be higher.
Taylor (50:36)
It's not all terrible.
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Faith (50:53)
This gets to that next question, which we want to talk about is the messages we've received about making money as social workers and how that really impacts our view on how we advocate for our pay, how we negotiate our pay, and what we believe we're worth.
Taylor (50:58)
Mm -hmm.
Faith (51:10)
example, when I was in this clinic, I was told very clearly you were not gonna be able to make it in private practice. This is not gonna work for you. I don't see it working for a social worker. If you were maybe a doctor of psychology or if you were maybe in psychology, then maybe it would work for you. The truth is that was holding me back by somebody that I'm, you know, it is what it is. But like the truth is they were dead wrong. And I knew they were dead wrong because I had talked to people and I'm not just gonna take this one person's opinion.
Taylor (51:19)
Mmm. Mmm.
Mm -hmm.
Faith (51:39)
And they were directly benefiting from me financially. So there's that too. So I think at the end of the day, have options and we should take those options and we shouldn't feel about it. So the messages we've received, right? The messages we've received. So what are some messages you've received, Taylor, about money and social work?
Taylor (51:43)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Absolutely. Yeah, messages like social workers, you're not in it, you're not in it for the money, we're here to help people. I remember seeing someone saying like, you need to serve your time before you make, before you, I'm sorry, what? I'm not serving anything. I'm here to get paid.
Faith (52:13)
yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Taylor (52:19)
for a job that I do. Like this is how this works. I trade my time for money and this isn't the military. I'm not serving a time. So I thought that that was just very toxic. Other things, like, you must not care about your clients. Hmm.
Faith (52:35)
That's toxic.
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Taylor (52:44)
Interesting. Why is me wanting to make more money, like feel secure financially, me not caring about the work that I do? No, no. can feel both of, I can still care for my clients and want to make more money. You know, like, you only care about money. No.
Faith (52:57)
Right. Right.
Taylor (53:09)
That's also not it. Like they don't have to be mutually exclusive. We need to be able to pay our bills. Or another thing, there's no money in social work. I know that that's something that, you know, we've heard and we feel, which like we were just saying is true to an extent, but there also is like we are sitting here saying that like, yeah, we're making decent money. know people that are.
Faith (53:10)
But no, no, no.
We've heard. huh.
Mm -hmm, mm -hmm, right.
Taylor (53:37)
And there's still room to improve like for, the entire profession. But, I know la last one I'll say is just professors, people saying like you're in it. We're in it for the outcome, not the end time, which is absolutely bullshit. Let me just say that.
Faith (53:41)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mmm.
Yeah, let's just exactly just say
Taylor (54:05)
because I'm in it. I'm sorry. I don't know. Maybe this unpopular opinion, popular opinion, whatever. I'm in it for the paycheck. I do want to help people. I do want to support, you know, like this. That is why I'm I am also here for that. That's why I do this work. But the only reason why I'm working period is because I need to get paid so I can
Faith (54:16)
Yeah.
Taylor (54:32)
so I can live. And like my boss has said, we have to work to survive and
Faith (54:40)
This is the system we're
Taylor (54:41)
this is the system we're in and we are so lucky that we actually get to do work that aligns with our values and what we want to be doing. Not everyone has that. So I appreciate that, but no, I'm sorry. I'm here for the paycheck as well. So.
Faith (55:00)
Both, are true. like, similarly, I've been told similar messages. I think we both heard that in grad school and I don't even know who said it. And I loved UW's program. This is not anything against UW's program. think I was very trained, very, very well. Actually, when I think about when I compare my training to those living abroad, it was the difference was drastic. I got to be honest. I was like,
Taylor (55:02)
Mm -hmm.
Faith (55:28)
Y 'all do what? Like, okay. Yeah. are trained very, very well at specifically UW. I really love their program. But the point is that I really remember getting this message. not in it for the money. And then everybody would laugh and like, yeah, you know, know implying y 'all going to do super hard work.
Taylor (55:29)
Really?
Faith (55:50)
You're going to be burnt out. And how can we do self care to prevent you from burning out? Well, maybe self care is giving me more money so that I don't have to take on 35 clients in a week. And I can actually take on 25 clients in a week or 20. And I can do better work. And I can be more prepared. And I'm not going to burn out. And I can last for 30 years in the profession versus five years in the profession. We're not thinking about that.
Taylor (55:57)
Yeah.
Yep.
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Faith (56:16)
Self care is like, make sure you go do your breathing and take deep breaths because here comes another really difficult, complex case. And well, why don't we just kind of give people some money so that like we can feel a little bit like I don't have to, cause that was part of it is if you're making less, you have to work with more clients, at least in my profession, my sector of the field, right? Like I have to see more clients to make more money.
Taylor (56:20)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Faith (56:45)
which burns me out, which makes me a worse, like honestly, not as good of a social worker. And so it all affects the work. It all affects you as a human being. So not in for the money. I don't agree with that at all. And then also I've got this really interesting comment in Switzerland, which was, don't you feel bad making money off of people's mental health? And doesn't that feel unethical to you? And I just like didn't.
Taylor (57:07)
Hmm. Hmm.
Faith (57:12)
I didn't know how to respond to that. They were French. Yeah, yeah. Because Switzerland has just got like all different types of cultures that are kind of mixed in there. But this individual was French and I not know how to respond, I think, because I was so taken back by that. And I still don't really know how I would respond to that question or that comment, but it implies...
Taylor (57:14)
Was that someone who was Swiss? interesting.
Faith (57:39)
that somehow I'm doing something wrong by charging a fee to talk about or to kind of help treat a mental health disorder. And it's like this Mother Teresa mindset that we're all supposed to be Mother Teresa's and be doing this for free. And I think it's the historical, potentially the historical background in the helping profession, right? In the humanitarian sector, in the,
Taylor (57:42)
Mm -hmm.
you
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Faith (58:07)
of area of the field, which is you just volunteer your time and you don't get paid for this kind of stuff. like things have evolved and time has moved forward and like we're not all Mother Teresa's nor should we be expected to be. And it's just like a weird kind of thing, right? Yeah.
Taylor (58:12)
Mm -hmm.
No.
Yeah, no, I totally agree. think there is that like, there's this expectation that if you are in this, helping profession, and it's like, it's not all helping professions, right? doctors were like, yes, doctors need to be paid more. And you know, I mean, they, they get paid well, but you know, why is it that people, social workers, other professionals who are supporting people who
Faith (58:38)
it's just -
It's
Taylor (58:51)
you know, have lower resources or, you know, who are just underserved in whatever way. Why is it that we, they should be getting this work for free? Which I don't know. I can't wrap my mind, I can't wrap my mind around that really. It's...
Faith (58:58)
this.
And that's part of this podcast is like trying to unpack that, trying to sort that out, trying to make sense of it and trying to label it as inaccurate. And it's a distortion. It's just totally a distortion. And I think, that's something that needs to be addressed. I also think it's uniquely the social work profession where this label is idea that we should be working really, really, really hard.
Taylor (59:12)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Faith (59:36)
for low pay, I don't see that with psychologists as much or with, and we've talked about that even our grad program about that difference. don't really see it with other helping professions. It's uniquely a social work problem. In my view, I could totally be wrong about that, but it feels uniquely, yeah. Or people say, bless your heart. You get that reaction when you say you're a social worker and they're like, bless your heart. There's just this.
Taylor (59:39)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
I know. I know.
Faith (1:00:05)
Thank you, thank you. Okay, bless my heart, thank you. But at the end of the day, okay, like, all right, you know.
Taylor (1:00:06)
Yeah, yeah, bless my heart. Definitely. Yeah, yeah, I really loved I posted this on my Instagram, but Nicki Sanders, she wrote a poem or you know, an article, guess, called is social work a job or a calling and one of her lines there is social work is a job.
a profession, a career. do not go to work to volunteer. I'm not a missionary. I am not a nun just because I am a social worker. Social workers do not take a vow of poverty. And I'm just like, so, so true. Yes. for sure. For sure.
Faith (1:00:39)
Mm -hmm. Yes.
Ugh.
Yes, yes, yes. Bring her on the podcast. Yeah, it's this Mother Teresa, like, and that woman was amazing. But at the end of the day, we need to be paid. End of the day, we need to be paid. So, okay.
Taylor (1:01:02)
Yeah, we need to be paid. so. Great, great chat. Thanks, thanks, Faith, for being vulnerable. I'm giving myself a little pat. we will be back next time with an interview with my friend Sam. She, Sam was great. She.
Faith (1:01:12)
Yeah, thanks Taylor.
Taylor (1:01:27)
I want her to share her salary progression and she's been crushing it with like paying off debt and I'd love for her to just, you know, share with us kind of like that mind shift, you know, what changed for her in terms of feeling in control of her money, similarly to what we've talked about today of just salary progression, like money messages she's received in the social work field.
Faith (1:01:33)
Hmm.
Mmm.
management.
Taylor (1:01:54)
how she's managing her money, what's been working for her. So, super excited for that episode and thanks for listening.