23. Social Workers Should Make $100k

Taylor (00:00)
Hello everyone. Welcome back to the social work 12 podcast. I'm Taylor and here with faith. We're doing a solo episode, but first some housekeeping. just want to shout out actually to social workers who I think are doing awesome, trying to navigate their career and grow and just network. And I've talked to them via email or video Stephanie N and Casey Z. I see you. You're doing great. Keep it up.
Faith (00:05)
Hey! Yes. ⁓
Taylor (00:28)
and yeah, we're rooting for you.
second thing is we're going to start hosting events, guys webinars. Um, yeah, I'm doing an investing webinar soon. And this is, mean, this is being released in October, 2025. So if you're listening to this way past, past then, then you have missed, you've missed that, but we're going to be doing soon a tech social work panel offering courses and things. And we're super excited about it.
Faith (00:41)
Yes!
Right, right, right, right.
Taylor (01:01)
However, we're not gonna always be able to share what we're doing on the podcast just because of timing. So I need you to get on the email list if you wanna be updated. So there is a link in the show notes to get on the newsletter. And I'm trying to make it as easy as possible for y'all, okay? You can also text socialwork to 33, 33777. Again, text socialwork to 33.
Faith (01:24)
Yes! ⁓
Taylor (01:31)
777 and you will be added to the list. ⁓ and last thing, social work to wealth.com. There are lots of blog posts, resources, typically after we release a podcast episode, there are expanded show notes on the blog. So if you're curious about just additional resources, definitely explore that. So that is the housekeeping. We're going to get into this.
Faith (01:58)
Yes, we've been busy.
Taylor's been busy. There's so many things. I got this, I got this, I got this. There's so many things to tell you guys about. So it's great. It's great. Yeah. It's so exciting.
Taylor (02:00)
episode. ⁓
We got, yes, I know, I know. ⁓ I know, this is, really exciting. I feel like in the past couple months,
our listenership, is that a word? I don't even know. Our listenership has grown and we're just so excited that there are people who are wanting to, yeah, they want this content and we're having fun providing it. so also if you have ideas about episodes, me an email.
Faith (02:17)
I don't know. ⁓
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Taylor (02:34)
um, sending you DM on Instagram, like we love to hear from people about what you want to hear about. So anyways, we are doing an episode we've never like episode format we've never really done before, which is a reaction episode. So this is what happened. Here's the, here's the, here's the tea. Okay.
Faith (02:40)
Yeah. Yes.
No, we've never done this before. No. Mm-hmm.
Tell us, what happened, Taylor? Here's
the tea.
Taylor (03:02)
I'm
like getting, I'm getting fired up. I'm like, I'm feeling it. I'm inside. So, okay. I posted on LinkedIn. Now let me back up. Like two months ago, I saw a tech company, tech mental health company, recruiter post on LinkedIn a job for a master's level clinician, $35 an hour. And...
Faith (03:05)
Me too.
Taylor (03:31)
I commented on their, I commented on his post and it was like, I appreciate the pay transparency, but $35 for a master's level of condition is not, not okay. And lots of people, lots of people came in the comments supporting me. He totally just like ghosted the post and did not respond. No, he didn't respond at all.
Faith (03:39)
Right.
That's not enough.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, didn't he? Yeah, he didn't respond at all. He didn't. I was like, I
was just on my phone like watching it like, is he gonna say something? Nothing, nothing. So, you know.
Taylor (04:03)
I told, I know, I
told, I showed Brett, my husband, for those who are new. I told him, I was like, I kinda, I kinda was like a little spicy on LinkedIn, which he's not surprised by, but I just felt like I needed to call him out about that. So anyways, a week goes by and I just, I just am feeling some sort of way. And so I post on LinkedIn. I will read it to you.
Faith (04:07)
Yeah.
Great.
Back at it again
on LinkedIn. Causing drama. Never knew it be happening on LinkedIn, but y'all this is where it's going down. If you don't know where to go, LinkedIn, LinkedIn.
Taylor (04:32)
Causing issues as I do.
LinkedIn, I know, I know.
I said, do not post your job on LinkedIn for a master's level or mental health clinician if the pay is not at least $100,000. I said what I said, employers, I'm talking to you. Now.
Faith (04:56)
Shit.
Shit. Taylor be throwing down. Come at me. Come at me. So what happened? Taylor, what happened when you posted that?
Taylor (04:58)
Ahhhh!
What happened?
So essentially this post in my view went viral on LinkedIn. 2,665 reactions, 246 comments, 129 reposts. Which, and it showed up on Facebook. I forgot about that. Yeah. So.
Faith (05:23)
Yeah. We didn't show up on Facebook somewhere, too. I'm just remembering this. Somebody else...
Taylor (05:30)
Yeah, I'm at a conference.
Faith (05:31)
Yeah.
Taylor (05:31)
I'm at, ⁓ FinCon. It was in Portland and I was like between sessions and I opened up my phone and I like click Facebook and boom, my, my, a screenshot of my post is in a Facebook group. And it was just, it was kind of, it felt so weird to be like, ⁓ those are my words, but I didn't, what is happening? So anyways, yeah, someone screenshotted it and just said, yes, love this message. ⁓
Faith (05:38)
Yeah.
It's weird. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Taylor (06:00)
And surprisingly, in both, on both platforms, LinkedIn and Facebook, we got some negativity, but also some positivity. So I'm going to read some comments. You're like, yeah, yeah, what she said.
Faith (06:08)
Yeah.
Positive. Yeah, yeah, we did. We say we, but really you. I'm like, I'm like this little like... Meanwhile, I'm LinkedIn, I have like 40 connections. I'm just like, yeah, Taylor, we.
Really just Taylor. Let's be clear. I keep my distance from these things. I'm a ride or die.
Taylor (06:29)
Faith is a ride or die though, I'm gonna tell you that right now. ⁓
Faith (06:36)
But I'm not getting out there like that.
Taylor (06:36)
okay.
So,
some positive comments, I love this. Someone said, for those shook by this, check your bias and stereotypes and quite frankly, sexism, female LCSW asking for her worth should be praised, not dismissed. Oof. Okay, I'm gonna shout her out. Melissa Leath. Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah, thanks Melissa. Melissa was in the comments, she was replying to people and I actually messaged her on the side. I was like, thanks for having my back. Thanks for having my back.
Faith (06:45)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Woo! that gave me chills. I like that. Thank you, Melissa. Shoot, I saw that. Good.
Taylor (07:11)
I really need that. ⁓ I see you and I appreciate it. ⁓ many
Faith (07:12)
I see you.
Taylor (07:16)
LCSWs here earn 50 K despite advanced degrees and high stakes work without reform, turnover and shortages. Without reform, turnover and shortages will continue. Period. Absolutely. Last one I'll read. Working for vibes doesn't translate to my grocery bill.
Faith (07:20)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Wait, who said that? Shout out! Christian O. Yes, thank you. Breaking it down real simple. You know when you need a chat GBT summary? Well, that just happened right there. Like, this is what's up.
Taylor (07:41)
Christian, Christian O. Thank you.
And last
one, thank you for saying this out loud. Too many social workers whisper about pay because we're afraid of being seen as greedy. We need more people normalizing these conversations.
Faith (08:01)
Yeah. Ooh.
That's what we're doing! That's awesome. That's... I like that. Okay, let's turn the page here. Yeah, let's do it.
Taylor (08:08)
That's what we're doing. We're normalizing these conversations, right? So, ⁓ okay. Now some of the negative comments. I know, we're going in, we're going in. We're going in on this. ⁓
As a social worker and an employer, I can assure you that this stance does not consider funding sources, massive changes in commercial insurance reimbursements, and subpar Medicaid reimbursements.
Benefits go beyond salary, in my opinion. Okay? Someone said, I'm on the fence.
Faith (08:40)
Mm-hmm, okay.
What?
Taylor (08:48)
I'm
on the fence dot dot dot about
Faith (08:53)
fence. Should we be paid more? I don't know. Maybe I just want to stay here. I'm on the fence. There's some negatives to making more money for sure. What?
Taylor (08:56)
Should we be paid? I know, you guys, I'm gonna.
I feel like...
I'm gonna say this right now. Faith in nice pettiness is absolutely gonna be coming out in this episode. It's just for fair warning, okay? But anyways, this person said, I'm on the fence. 100K may be unrealistic depending on location, but 45K is a joke, true. Find a happy medium with comp and benefits. ⁓ Okay, this one pissed me off. I mean, a lot of these were annoying, but.
Faith (09:12)
yeah.
Okay, love that.
Okay.
Taylor (09:32)
You think an MSW
with no licensure should get the same range as a PhD? Medicaid reimbursement rates and insurance panels simply don't support it in a scalable model.
Faith (09:38)
Hmm.
Okay. We're just gonna let that hang there. Silence. ⁓
Taylor (09:47)
So, okay. You think an MSW with no
licensure should get the same range as a PhD? And when I replied to that person, I said...
Faith (09:56)
Yeah. Ooh, what'd say?
Taylor (10:01)
Just because PhDs are not getting paid that much does not mean master's level clinicians should not be also paid that much. I'm hoping that if the pay range for MSWs increases, PhD income and salaries would also increase. I told them, I don't like this. Well, we don't have it, so you shouldn't have it. Like mentality, I don't.
Faith (10:11)
Correct.
Hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That would be
like a saying to the P4P group. Well, I don't get paid a lot, so therefore interns shouldn't get paid. No. No. Yeah, I didn't get paid as intern, so right. Right.
Taylor (10:38)
Right, or I didn't get paid as an intern. I didn't get paid as an intern, so you shouldn't get paid as an intern. That's not how we change
the perf, that's not how we change anything.
Faith (10:49)
Anything. Yeah, no. That perspective doesn't work. It doesn't work. And it's actually really, really, ⁓ I think, not offensive, but not really open-minded at all. It's pretty close-minded. well, PhD students don't make this much. And it's very selfish. It's like, PhD professionals don't make this much. I'm a student. Don't make this much. like...
Taylor (11:17)
Mm-hmm.
Faith (11:19)
Therefore, you shouldn't make that much. I need to make more first because I have more education. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, we're losing the whole message here is that social workers in general, whether you are a bachelor's level, a master's level, a PhD level, y'all need to make more money. Everybody needs to make more money, period. And we can't be like sectioning ourselves off into these different groups and say, when I get mine, then you can get yours. Like, I don't like that at all.
Taylor (11:22)
Yeah, right.
period. ⁓
Mm-hmm.
Faith (11:47)
I don't like that. And maybe that's not what they were implying or saying, but like that just rubs me the wrong way.
Taylor (11:54)
It totally, it totally does. Yeah. I...
Yeah, I'm just, I'm, I'm, I'm pausing cause I'm just kind of like scrolling through some of these comments and they just feel really, they just are negative, you know? And, and, and someone has posted, you know, um, like replied to, I think his comment and had said, you know, this post just seems sensationalist, da da da da, you know, and just trying to drive, um,
Faith (12:06)
Yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
that your post was sensationalist? Uh-huh.
Taylor (12:29)
commentary conversation, which yeah,
Faith (12:30)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Taylor (12:32)
I was trying to like start a conversation. also honestly, I didn't even have any, I was just pissed. I didn't even have any like agenda. ⁓ and I think I recognize that just because I posted that on LinkedIn doesn't mean that all of a sudden this, you know, no one's going to post their job for under a hundred thousand dollars.
Faith (12:34)
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm
Taylor (12:57)
for a master's level clinician, but the point is
we need to be talking about that that is what we should be demanding, expecting from employers and that it's okay for us to feel, to want that money and to not feel greedy, you know, because we want to make more.
Faith (13:07)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I just, we're serious about this, everybody. We're not just gonna not say stuff because it makes people uncomfortable. We're serious about this. We're not just like getting on a podcast and talking, you know, about some ideas. We're not just having fun, we are.
Taylor (13:33)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like we're just not just having fun. Like I mean we're having fun, we
also have an agenda and we have a goal. We have a mission.
Faith (13:42)
We're serious, yes.
Yes, we're not kidding. You said what you said because you mean what you said and because you want what you said. And I think the only way you get change is by pushing into the uncomfortable, right? You have to get uncomfortable. yeah. So I think the reason you said that, obviously you kind of spoke to why that is, but also like...
It's because we're serious. We want to see change here. And somebody's got to say it. Somebody's got to say it. Why not us? Yeah. Yeah.
Taylor (14:14)
Somebody's gotta say it. we're, yeah, yeah. We're the ones that
are, you know, moving this conversation forward about social workers and money. And yeah, we need to continue to be having these conversations over and over again because yeah, my one post.
Faith (14:30)
Yes.
We're trying to change
these mindsets and change this idea that social workers should only make $50,000. $50,000 is nothing. No one can live off of that. No one can live off of that.
Taylor (14:43)
Mm-hmm.
It's nothing. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember you saying that
$100,000 now, I mean, I know it's for a lot of people, maybe depending on where you live, lower cost of living, that would be a ton of money. And in other places, $100,000 is like 60 K feeling.
Faith (14:56)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I looked it up. I looked
it up. I looked up the difference. So my dad worked as a mailman for 40 years of his life and he made around $60,000 like in the 1990s, which is equivalent today to $148,000. $60,000 in 1990 is equivalent to $148,000. On that salary, this is a little bit of personal thing, my dad worked, my mom did not work. My dad could take care of us on that salary. That doesn't exist anymore.
Taylor (15:20)
Wow.
Yeah. No.
Faith (15:34)
that
doesn't exist anymore. I'm not making it, you know, these numbers, yeah, so we need to really, when we say, you really think a master's level social worker should make more than a PhD, no, we're not saying that. We're saying PhDs should make more, masters should make more, bachelors should make more. Everybody should make more. Everybody should be elevated. ⁓ And we're targeting the master's level because that's where, you know, we are at personally, like that's where we're at. But also, like,
Taylor (15:49)
We should think everyone should be elevated.
Yeah, that's our experience.
Faith (16:04)
Yeah, I don't know. I think it should be across the board, right? We both think it should be across the board. yeah. Those are the numbers, though. Those are the numbers.
Taylor (16:11)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And Faith pulled some awesome, some other great numbers about the workforce and let's get into that.
Faith (16:19)
Yes.
Yeah. So I feel like in some of those negative comments, it was like, let's be realistic, because what you're saying isn't realistic. Or like, insurance isn't going to be able to reimburse so that somebody can make that much money. Or a lot of like, this isn't realistic.
Taylor (16:36)
Right, yeah, someone said not realistic for
not realistic for small private practices. ⁓ 100k might be unrealistic depending on like unrealistic, unrealistic. ⁓
Faith (16:47)
Like we're just like pie in
the sky. okay, maybe, okay, okay. So one of the things that bothers me is like, you and I are not pulling from this business model that they're all talking about where I think somebody said, I don't know if somebody said this, but I was thinking about it more.
Taylor (17:09)
Right.
Faith (17:17)
It was like, you need to be realistic. That's not how businesses work. That's not how ⁓ things work nowadays. And I'm like, we're not trying to operate out of that. We're trying to operate out of something nowadays. We're like, we.
Taylor (17:31)
The nowadays, the past days are, what we're talking about. Like this shit don't work. We need something new.
Faith (17:40)
Exactly. We're not doing it that way on
purpose. That's the whole point. It's like, I don't want to use your business model. I don't want to use that. Yes.
Taylor (17:45)
That's the, I don't want to use the current model. Like let's, let's
maybe have, I don't know, some, some vision or some just like create creative thinking about like what's, what's possible. What could be different?
Faith (17:55)
Mm-hmm.
possible.
Right, exactly. And so that's my first thing. It's like I'm not exactly... you're right. This doesn't apply to your business model because that's not what we're going for. So that's number one. Number two. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Taylor (18:09)
This is a new model, a new model where insurance companies
reimburse at the rate that they should and all of the things. Yeah.
Faith (18:18)
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Exactly.
So the first thing I'll just say is like, I don't also subscribe to this like, well, it doesn't seem realistic. So like, well.
you and I and every other social worker that I know well like let's just go home like no like I don't know what you did for your masters or where you were in your master's program but I learned that we work towards systemic change and we overcome oppression and exploitation and we call it out when we see it and that includes our own profession and so I don't know I'm just kind of doing what I was taught to do in my master's program which is like advocating for systemic change within our profession.
Taylor (18:34)
Mmm, what are we gonna do?
Yeah.
Faith (19:04)
and saying, hey, this is a problem, let's all collectively talk about it, then come together and find solutions. And so the other big problem is like, and I pulled the statistic from the US, so it's the US Bureau of Labor Statistics. And it was put into this study done by Columbia University, where everyone's saying be realistic. Well, what's realistic is that,
Taylor (19:08)
Yeah, yeah.
Faith (19:30)
we have a shortage of social workers. We are at a deficit. We need 74,000 social workers to meet that deficit. And right now we're only adding 32,000 a year. Okay, so, and there was another study done by...
Taylor (19:45)
That's so bad.
Faith (19:47)
the Association of Social Work Boards just came out in July. And basically, the summary is 10 % of the social work profession, people who are already in the profession, are leaving. So we have a massive issue with retaining and recruiting. And there could be a lot of reasons to why that is. But I would argue that one of the ways you retain talent or bring people into the profession is you incentivize them with good pay and career opportunity and lower caseloads.
Taylor (20:16)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Faith (20:17)
and not self
care, but self advocacy, giving them training on how to manage and negotiate their pay. Maybe we do student loan forgiveness. These are just some ideas that I'm serious about, Taylor's serious about, and that are real. That's being realistic, not just, oh, it's not realistic to make a hundred grand, so like, oh well, this is all real too. So that's my little two cents there. And we'll like put down in the show notes or like in the show notes, we'll put like the studies that I'm pulling from. I'm not just like pulling these numbers
Taylor (20:31)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Totally.
Mm-hmm.
Faith (20:47)
nowhere so that would be pretty ridiculous ⁓ but yeah that's my first little kind of like you know reaction to some of that
Taylor (20:56)
Yeah, like
money, money gives us options. It's, it's how our country shows that they value something and all of those things could help. Like all of those things that you listed out the, you know, helping us negotiate our salary, more pay. mean, I guess not all of it. said lower casals. That'd be awesome. Student loan forgiveness. ⁓ A lot of that would be financially.
Faith (21:13)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Taylor (21:26)
positively impactful to our lives in a way that is potentially unmeasurable because money is just so intertwined with how we're able to sustain as humans in this work. You know, I remember, I think I brought this up when we were talking to Nikki, but I remember that little meme that I saw that said when we talk about, when we say it's burnout,
Faith (21:31)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Taylor (21:54)
you know, social workers leaving the profession, they're burned out, dah, dah, dah, dah. That like puts the onus on us that we didn't do something to prevent it. But when we call it exploitation, what we use the word exploitation when people are underworked, I mean underpaid and overworked. So if we start calling this exploitation, that puts the onus on employers.
Faith (21:55)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yep.
Taylor (22:24)
and the system that then we can, you know, explore ways to change. Because there's no level of self-care that is going to...
Faith (22:26)
Yeah.
you
No.
Taylor (22:40)
help
anyone who's making $50,000, has an intense caseload and can't just take time for them themselves. You know, we already know that we shouldn't be working this much as a like human population anyways. It's just not healthy for us to be working this many hours. But then when you add on the work that we do, that is just so emotionally draining and
Faith (22:52)
Yeah.
Taylor (23:08)
Yeah, talks and would be super helpful.
Faith (23:12)
Money talks, yeah. And
also, just gonna throw this in there as well, you've been putting together like a, what is it called? Your survey that asks people for their, the salary database, the salary database. There are people on there who make a livable wage. This whole idea that like, it's not realistic. Well then why are we getting,
Taylor (23:27)
the salary database.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Faith (23:41)
this data that's showing otherwise. There are
people making $100,000. It is realistic. I make over $100,000. And guess what? I'm a mental health therapist. If it wasn't realistic, then I shouldn't be able to make the money I'm making. Maybe you shouldn't be in a... Yeah.
Taylor (23:46)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yes.
Yes, I just found one.
There's a social worker, I just pulled it up. It's on the blog y'all, socialwork12.com. I'll put it in the show notes. uh, social worker therapy private practice Arizona making 156,000 and they said they work 30 hours a week.
Faith (24:03)
Yeah, yeah.
So this is the thing, maybe you shouldn't be in a group practice. Maybe group practices aren't where we should be ⁓ putting our attention anymore. Maybe it should be about how do I as a mental health provider...
Taylor (24:24)
Yeah.
Faith (24:28)
start my own private practice and it's just me and I keep my overhead low and I can make a livable wage and yes it is worth it even with the taxes even with the taxes you have to pay even with maternity leave hello just did it came back I'm fine everything's good right like you can do things and you can save for retirement all the things so I think this whole idea what's realistic what's not realistic reimbursement rates from insurance are too low no they're not enough well they are 100 % yes yeah too low
Taylor (24:31)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Faith (24:58)
But, like, they're not so low that you can't make six figures. That's just not true. That is just not true. ⁓ So that I find strange too, like that little comment.
Taylor (25:03)
Yeah. Yeah.
The unrealistic comment, feel it's so
interesting that that word specifically kind of came up multiple times, unrealistic. And I think I, I just remembered, ⁓ on tick tock y'all I'm on tick tock. just started posting. Did I don't know. I don't know if I've shared this on the podcast, but a couple of months ago, I just was like, you know what? Instagram is so
Faith (25:23)
I can't believe you're on TikTok. I love that you're on TikTok, but...
Yeah.
Ugh.
Taylor (25:34)
And I'm just sorry if you, you know, you and I interact on Instagram. I'm still going to show up there, but I just, no one comments on Instagram really. ⁓
Faith (25:42)
Yeah, no, it's no interaction.
Taylor (25:45)
So I was just like, I'm gonna try TikTok
Faith (25:45)
There's very low interaction.
Taylor (25:47)
and I started posting and you know, great engagement on TikTok. If you found me on TikTok, thanks for being here. But ⁓ I posted a video that has gotten some really great interaction. And I said, if you are a social worker and you make a good salary, post your salary and your job title. And so there's been a ton of social workers sharing.
their salaries. ⁓ And someone on that post actually said, this is unrealistic for, or just like this is an unrealistic picture of the profession or something like that. And I thought that was an interesting comment. I think my intention behind that
Faith (26:26)
Hmm, interesting.
Taylor (26:36)
You know, I have a lot of intentions, but one of them was that in our programs and just in society, it's talked about, you know, I'm sure many of you, Faith and I included, had this comment said to us where we say, oh, we're social workers, or, know, or I'm a social worker, I'm going into social work, blah, blah. And people are like, oh, you're not gonna make any money. You know, or you're...
Faith (26:39)
Yeah.
Right, Bless your heart.
⁓ bless your heart. You're like, thank you. Okay.
Taylor (27:06)
Bless your heart.
Or your professor saying, you know,
we're not in it for the income, we're in it for the outcome. Anyway, sorry. Sorry just did that in your ear. I just, so the, there's already this kind of, I don't quote unquote understanding or this expectation. The cultural norm. Yes. There's already this cultural norm that
Faith (27:17)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, cultural norm. It's a cultural norm. Yeah, yeah.
Taylor (27:36)
social workers don't make money. And so the point of me posting that, the point of the salary series, the point of gathering these salaries is to show that two things. One, social workers can make money, can make good money. Obviously we can make money. Like you get a job, you make money, but we can make good money.
Faith (27:43)
Yes, yes.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Good money.
Taylor (28:02)
lots of things, know, are factors. Location, experience, niche. mean, social workers can work in all sorts of different places, but I just want to show social workers that there are ways to navigate the profession. ⁓ and maybe you're stuck in a state that just pays awful. And that's the other side of the coin of talking about the salaries is us shining a light on these
Faith (28:11)
Yeah.
Taylor (28:29)
ridiculously low salaries and advocating. So it's, we're advocating for the low salary for the, you know, the people who are making low income, but we're also shining a light on, look, look what you can also do. You know, it's not all garbage. It's not all garbage.
Faith (28:38)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, totally,
totally. And it's so important we talk about this and we show that both are true because...
Taylor (28:58)
Yes.
Faith (28:59)
Otherwise, we believe things that aren't true. We believe that things aren't realistic or we believe that people should be paid a certain amount or that, you know, and the truth is, well, what does the data say? If y'all haven't filled out this survey that Taylor has, please go do it. They're just saying, go do it because we need more data and we need to publicly show like on a large, you know, data set of people, like what do social workers actually make? What do they actually make?
Taylor (29:11)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Faith (29:28)
And we do so many different things. This is the salary series is going to be so cool. And it already is something we've been working really hard on. And we've been meeting with so many people who do so many different things. And that's the point. Social workers don't just do child welfare and mental health. They do so many things. And there's a huge span. Tech social workers, huge span of incomes. And so both are true. And so we need to highlight that. And then also,
Taylor (29:45)
Right, we have tech social workers. You know?
Yeah.
Faith (29:57)
When you're advocating, you don't say, well, I think every social worker, you know, don't advocate for like just a little bit of change. You don't say like, think every social worker should make $60,000. You say, I think every social worker, even if you live in a state that only pays you 30 grand, should make 100 grand. You always reach for farther, always. Like that's basic advocacy. And then...
Taylor (30:08)
Yeah.
Yes.
Yes, yes. That's the salary negotiation
tactic- also!
Faith (30:22)
Hello? Yeah.
So, and then that PhD person could be like, yo, this person has her master's, so make it 100 grand. I want 120, I want 130. Yo, you use that. So it's just fascinating to me that people are like, this isn't realistic. I'm like, first of all, it kind of is. Second of all, like, duh, like we're reaching, we're reaching here on purpose.
Taylor (30:30)
Right?
Yeah. There's two things right.
Yes. That's hilarious.
Faith (30:48)
Right? Do you hear what I'm saying?
Taylor (30:51)
Yeah, no, that was just
so funny. But duh.
Faith (30:56)
But duh, like again, what did you learn in your masters? I'm so confused. Or in your PhD, whatever, like this is basic advocacy, right? You reach, you reach, you
Taylor (31:01)
Yeah.
It totally is, yeah, yeah. We reach, yeah.
I also remember on a different video I posted, someone said, social work and wealth in the same sentence is comical. I'm like, why are you shitting on my brand name? Gosh, but also.
Faith (31:20)
⁓ yeah.
Well I am laughing, I am laughing. Yo she shit hot.
They hit, yeah they hit hard on your brandy. Well.
Taylor (31:34)
They hit hard. Social work and wealth in the same
sentence is comical. That's, again, the point is to make it not funny. The point is to make it the norm. The point is for social workers to be wealthy. What are you not understanding? What are you not understand-
Faith (31:41)
It shouldn't be. That's the point, y'all.
Yeah, The ending.
But this is the thing, like when you're doing real social work, you're going to ruffle people's feathers. And that's what I think we're doing is we're just doing for the social worker what we do in our everyday, you know, jobs. We're just doing it for our own profession. And we're going to ruffle feathers. I'm OK with that. I'm OK with that. Yeah. No, no, no, you go.
Taylor (32:06)
That's so true.
That's so true. Yeah, yeah, we're... Go ahead.
I was just gonna say we're trying to make it the norm. Yeah.
Faith (32:22)
Yeah, trying to
make it the norm. ⁓ I wanted to reply to the insurance thing just a little bit, this whole insurance question. Okay.
Taylor (32:28)
Yes, okay, let's talk about it. Mm-hmm. Just like
the fact that what is the insurance piece? That people are saying, insurance pays too low, so it's not possible. Yeah.
Faith (32:35)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So correct. So I'm in private practice. I bill insurance, all the things. So I actually feel like I can say a little bit about this. ⁓ So, and again, everybody has different insurance reimbursement rates, yada, yada, yada, all the things. But one thing that I've learned about insurance, at least in the state of Colorado, is that
Taylor (32:49)
Please do.
Faith (33:03)
And I think this is true for the Affordable Care Act as well, ⁓ is that they have to do something that's called network adequacy. So essentially, it is mandated by the state that insurance companies have a certain amount of behavioral health specialists a part of their panel in order to ensure
whoever's a part of their insurance gets adequate care. So they can't say, we have a mental health ⁓ insurance program, part of our insurance, I don't know what it would be, board or plan, part of our insurance plan, and then only have one behavioral health specialist. Because then you have 50,000 people, there's not enough to go around. So they're like, you have to have a certain amount on your.
Taylor (33:39)
Mm-hmm.
Right. There's not enough to go around.
⁓ interesting.
Faith (33:51)
that are
on your insurance ⁓ if you're going to say that you offer that so that it is accessible to people who are part of the plan. So there's different things that regulators look for. They look for
and consider in this like number. So they look for ⁓ if it's like an urban or rural area, they look for if it's like a larger city, they look at different populations and different sizes and things like that. And then they make this determination on like, you should have this many behavioral health specialists a part of this plan if you're going to be servicing this amount of people in this area. So the ratio that I saw ⁓
Colorado's ⁓ regulatory system or way that they determine this is like one behavioral health specialist to a thousand people. That's a lot of people, but that tells you something, that social workers or behavioral health specialists have a lot of power.
Taylor (34:47)
That is a lot of people.
Faith (34:58)
in insurance companies. If you have, I don't know, 60,000 people a part of an insurance plan, that's only 60 behavioral health specialists. If you all get together and say, we're not happy with how much you're reimbursing us, we're all going to leave this panel, we're all going to leave this insurance company, if you don't increase our insurance rates,
Taylor (35:21)
Mm-hmm.
Faith (35:23)
That is a big problem for an insurance company. And I'll tell you why. So they have to this quota, right, in order for the state to say that you can serve our people and you can offer insurance. So my point is, and hopefully I'm making this point clearly. I don't think I am, but I'm trying, is that we need to collectively come together and say, how much are you getting? How much are you getting? As long as we're good on our contracts.
Taylor (35:31)
Right. Interesting.
You are, you are...
Yeah, the transparency. Yeah,
yeah.
Faith (35:54)
collectively say we're not okay with that to get higher reimbursement rates. We can't do it one on one. We can't all do it ourselves. We need to come together and negotiate together. And there is pressure from a state, like they have to have certain numbers on their plans for people. And I know this is true also because I am not credentialed with a specific insurance plan.
Taylor (36:01)
We can't, it has to be a collective thing.
Faith (36:20)
And yet they said I was. So insurance companies are making, yeah, insurance companies are making ghost accounts essentially saying they're just going and looking for providers and saying they need to make their quota. And that happened to me so that the state won't shut them down. So like, yeah.
Taylor (36:23)
Excuse me, what?
⁓ because they need to their quota. ⁓ they are so freaking slimy.
Faith (36:40)
Yeah, so like this is, that's okay. And like, again, I'm not, I'm just putting this information out there. I'm not saying I have all the answers or I know what to do here. I'm just saying here's one possible idea of how we could maybe change the insurance game.
Taylor (36:55)
Here's one possible idea, like, yeah.
we're going to have to do something
super just... ballsy. I don't know. I can't even think of like a better word. You know what I mean? Like we're, that is, I don't know if anyone has been a part of just unionization, collective bargaining, like that whole process, that stuff is so hard and we still need to get my coworkers on the podcast so we can talk about our...
Faith (37:07)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, right. ⁓ Totally.
Yeah.
Taylor (37:27)
experience with that. Yeah, someday. like people make change in those ways, you know, specifically with talking about unions and getting these amazing union contracts, it's hard and it's also against the norm. You know, like they are advocate, heavy, heavy advocate, advocating advocacy. ⁓
Faith (37:29)
Yes! Yes!
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Taylor (37:54)
And that's something that we're going to need to do for us. think we've, you and I have just this passion for us to advocate for ourselves, for social workers to finally advocate for the social worker. You know, we are, we are 10 toes down for everyone else, but we need to set aside time, energy, whatever.
Faith (38:10)
Yes, yes.
Yes. ⁓
Right.
Taylor (38:23)
Also, sometimes we just don't have that too, I get it. I'm not trying to say that, like, we just all need to set aside time for this and it's hard. I remember going through our advocacy and it's exhausting. if I, yeah, it's just a lot of work. ⁓ And if you're underpaid and overworked, like, what do you have to give? Nothing, you know? But there's some of us that do, so, anyways.
Faith (38:44)
You don't have the time. Yeah, nothing. Nothing.
Taylor (38:49)
Are we gonna be leading some sort of, I don't know, just, when you were talking, I just had like chills and just this vision of us in, you who knows what this is gonna become in five years, 10 years, like, and what we're gonna be able to do for the profession.
Faith (38:50)
Yeah.
Yeah
Yeah.
for the social worker and I
think for the profession. And again, it's like we can choose to engage in a broken system or we can try to change it. And so like, I'm just, don't, so many times, you know, for so long, we've just been participating in this broken system that social workers get paid what they get paid and that's what it is. And we know the roots and we know why that is. We've broken that all down. And so I think it's like, okay, it's time to actually be like, okay, what do we want to do to change it?
Taylor (39:14)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
I completely agree.
Faith (39:37)
So, yeah. Man, so many things. No, I just hope I made it clear. It's a little confusing, so I get it. It's confusing. like, insurance is a big piece of the game. But I don't think it's impossible to change. I don't think it's, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Taylor (39:39)
Anything else you want to say about that?
You dead. You dead? No.
Mm-hmm.
And I agree. I don't think it's impossible. And I know that,
you know, because they seem like such ⁓ a giant, you know, and it just, it feels like, we can't beat that. we, yeah, individually, but collectively we can do a lot. We can do a lot collectively. And I believe that. So.
Faith (40:02)
Yeah. ⁓
collectively, you can do a lot.
Yeah. Awesome. Money moment.
Taylor (40:14)
Awesome. Well, let's finish off with the money moment. Have it.
I'm trying to think. I can't remember when the last time we've done it, but if you're new here, money moment is just us bringing back the conversation to money, which I mean, we've been talking about this whole episode, but also us kind of sharing personally a either a win, a failure, just a insight, like really anything. So what do you got? What's your money moment?
Faith (40:42)
Okay, I'm just like fired up today. It's a little bit sassy again. It's a little bit sassy. ⁓ man, everyone's gonna be like, wow, Faith, she's gosh, she was a little cranky that day. ⁓ So I was in a group practice and one of the things that I was incentivized or one of the things that was told to me as to why I should stay is you get maternity leave, you get maternity leave. And if anybody knows I've been on maternity leave, I'm just coming back.
Taylor (40:50)
Hey, it's on fire!
Faith (41:10)
from attorney leave ⁓ to work. ⁓
Taylor (41:12)
When they were saying,
you get maternity leave, it's paid maternity leave? That's what they were promoting? Okay.
Faith (41:17)
Yeah, you get paid
correct and like that they
help cover maternity leave. So in the state of Colorado, we have something called family leave, where if you decide to, if you have a kiddo or you have some medical emergency, you can take what's called family leave, which is three months off and you get paid for it. And they have, you get like 90 % of your pay essentially. Unless you hit the max, whatever. It's a math problem, but you get paid. Okay. So I was like, Oh, when I remember being like, Oh yeah, I do want to have a kiddo like that, that just seemed
like nice to have that. And I was really like overwhelmed by this idea of doing maternity leave and like how I was going to swing it. ⁓ So I just want to say a year later, a year and a half later, here I am and I decided on my own, as a self-employed person, can, you can put money into this family leave system and y'all the amount I put in and the amount I got out like is awesome. You don't, I did not.
Taylor (42:15)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Faith (42:21)
I don't know why that person was telling me that I needed to stay and that it was all this money that I was losing out on. It wasn't. Every quarter, so I'll just lay it out there, I paid about 200 bucks per quarter, so every four months I paid in $200. And across my leave, I got $13,000. So for three months, I got $13,000. I got like 1,100 per week from the state.
Taylor (42:28)
Hmm.
And you paid
total how much in?
Faith (42:49)
and I paid in,
I paid into the system 800 bucks total. So...
Taylor (42:55)
That is how you take care
of your people. Colorado, Colorado. Yeah. Oregon has it too. Yeah. Totally. And I feel like Oregon just Oregon just enacted I think last year. So I feel like it's a, it's a slow moving thing that, that states are starting to do, but that is amazing.
Faith (42:58)
people. Yeah, Colorado is a great state. Yeah, this needs to be national. Oregon has it too, yeah. This needs to be like a national thing for sure. ⁓
Yeah.
Yeah. So, number one. Yeah, that's my thing. That's what I got. Okay. Yeah.
Taylor (43:24)
Yeah. Okay. Awesome. Love it. My money
moment is I recently, maybe a couple of months ago, I found a free CEU podcast. So it's called save the therapist. I'm shouting out.
Let me find his name. Don't want to mess it up. Tobin Richardson. He's a therapist. I found him on LinkedIn. But he has created a podcast where you can get one CEU for listening to a 30 minute episode. You have to do, you know, like a survey and a post-test and then you get your certificate. just, I have some CEUs due at the end of this month. And so was like, you know what? I'm going to, I'm going to try this out. And it was so nice to be able to just listen to a podcast.
Faith (43:48)
Cool.
Taylor (44:12)
And he has some really interesting topics and also I'm talking with him soon ⁓ because I also want to just like hear about how he got this accredited to like offer CEUs, but it was super simple to, he has this platform you log into, you get your certificate, you take the test. I mean, it was so seamless. I'm super, super impressed. And also it's just another way of for...
Faith (44:12)
I love this.
Yeah.
Taylor (44:38)
I appreciate that he's just giving back in this way, you know? We talk about how expensive it can be to like maintain a license and so anyways, check it out. Save the therapist. I'll put the link in the show notes. Super cool. Alright, thanks for listening everyone and we'll talk to you in two
Faith (44:41)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
That's so cool. I love that. That's great money moment. Yeah. All right.