26. Social Work Salary Transparency with Catherine Moore, LCSW

Taylor (00:00)
Welcome to the Social Work to Wealth podcast. I'm Taylor and here with my co-host Faith and we also have Catherine.
Faith Voss (00:08)
Yay!
Catherine Moore, LCSW (00:10)
Yes, I'm Catherine Moore
Taylor (00:11)
you
Catherine Moore, LCSW (00:12)
of the Social Workers Rise podcast.
Taylor (00:15)
Welcome to our joint podcast episode. So I guess for the social work 12 podcast listeners, Catherine, you want to introduce yourself and yeah, tell us about you and your podcast.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (00:28)
Yeah, I'd love to. So my name is Katherine Moore. I am an LCSW based out of Southern California. I have been social working since 2009. So been around the block a couple of times, worked in different settings as far as with ⁓ older adults, done political advocacy, done affordable housing. The majority of my work has been in the medical setting. So working in all different types of settings, including hospitals, emergency rooms, ICU.
maternity care, NICU, palliative work, hospice work, ⁓ outpatient, inpatient, all of the above, all sorts of patients. All sorts of patients. And currently I do a lot of different things, which we'll kind of talk about income streams in this episode, so stay tuned, listener. ⁓ But right now my main things are therapy.
Taylor (01:06)
has she not done?
Faith Voss (01:07)
Wow. Whoa.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (01:25)
So I do telehealth and then I also do in-person therapy at an assisted living. I also have a couple businesses including the Rise Directory and some books and the Social Workers Rise podcast. But we'll get into all that. So that's a little bit about me. I would like to hear more about both of
Faith Voss (01:42)
I also work in private practice and I mostly treat OCD and PTSD. I am based in Colorado, I have in my kind of clinical history, I did refugee resettlement and I also did family reunification. And then I provided mental health therapy in schools. So with like primary students and then all the way up through high school.
And I got an opportunity to do that when I was living abroad for a couple years. So that was really cool experience to kind of do international social work for a while too. So more like mental health focused work for me. But yeah, that's a little bit about what I've done. Yeah.
Taylor (02:20)
Yeah,
and I have been mostly a medical social worker, so working in hospice, hospitals. Currently, I work in organ donation transplant, so talking with families about their loved one becoming an organ donor. And then on the side, we have Social Work to Wealth. I'm the...
you know, creator of the platform for social workers. Really, my hope is to provide like money, education and career guidance for social workers. And so it started off as a blog in twenty twenty two, me documenting my journey of paying off six figures of debt. We are still my husband, my husband and I are still in that journey. But yeah. And then Faith and I started the podcast January twenty twenty
Catherine Moore, LCSW (03:02)
Ooh.
Taylor (03:12)
but we're really just kind of with everything that we're doing.
I'm committed to, you know, ending this belief that like social workers have to struggle financially to do this work. And so, yeah, we focus on salary transparency, career mobility, and just like empowering social workers to build a life and career that's financially sustainable and, you know, emotionally sustainable. Like we, the two can coexist. ⁓ So, yeah. ⁓
Faith Voss (03:24)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
They can, they can, yes. ⁓
Catherine Moore, LCSW (03:42)
For sure. Yeah, for
sure.
Taylor (03:47)
So yeah, it's been fun and excited to talk with you, someone who's been a podcaster in the social work space for so long. ⁓ So yeah, happy to have you here and have this conversation. So today we're talking about salary transparency, how much can you make as a social worker. Yeah, super excited to get into the details of that, but I feel like.
Faith Voss (04:03)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor (04:11)
For me personally, salary transparency is just so important for us to be able to close the pay gap and break this silence around just inequality and also to help social workers make informed decisions about job searching. yeah, I think this.
Faith Voss (04:20)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Taylor (04:37)
this kind of whole conversation started with my desire to collect salaries on the salary in the salary database that I have. I have I just counted it up today. It's. 1509 salaries. Pretty good. Yeah, I started collecting them in January 2024, so it's almost been two years.
Faith Voss (04:47)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, how many do you have?
Whoa! That's... That is...
Catherine Moore, LCSW (04:55)
Wow.
Taylor (05:06)
And yeah, I think, I don't know, I had this kind of like idea of, I mean, I'm kind of nosy, but I also like to share my own salary. And I was just like, I just wonder what social workers are making. So I just made this form, really just in one night, made a Google form and put it out there. And I think in like within 48 hours, I got like 500 entries. It was kind of nuts.
Faith Voss (05:15)
Yeah.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (05:18)
You
Taylor (05:36)
And so I started sharing those salaries on my Instagram and people just really were enjoying, you know, this conversation and talking about salaries. didn't realize that other people would, you know, want to know this information too. ⁓ it's been a really interesting.
Faith Voss (05:52)
Yeah, think Taylor,
people just really appreciate the transparency, right? Because there's just a lack of transparency in our field around salaries. And I think there's also the assumption that everyone gets paid really, really low in the field. And I think that we've been finding that that's actually not always true. There are social workers who actually make a decent livable wage, and there are social workers that are severely underpaid. And so it's this idea of, hey, we need to be transparency to this. We need data to back up.
you know, some of these beliefs that we have. And hopefully through this work that you've started, Taylor, we can actually start to change the conversation around talking about how much we make so that we can make more informed decisions. And so I think, I don't know, I just think that's awesome. And I can't believe that we're at 1,500. Like that's insane. I remember when it was like, so you were like, have 500, I have 550, I have 600. And now it's like, yes, it's just
Taylor (06:22)
Yes.
you
Faith Voss (06:49)
growing and
Catherine Moore, LCSW (06:52)
Yeah, that's amazing.
I'd love to share it with my audience too, because I'm sure they would pitch in their salaries and information also.
Taylor (06:58)
So, I, Catherine, I'm curious, like, what has your journey been like as a social worker regarding money and, you know, salary progression and just, yeah.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (07:09)
Yeah, that's a great question. as far as with my salary, OK, keep in mind, I've been in the field since 2009. That's when I got my bachelor's degree. And my gosh, my first job, I probably made twenty dollars an hour coming out of my bachelor's program. This was during the other recession back in the day. So I was working two part time jobs at about twenty, twenty five an hour, just trying to make ends meet.
Faith Voss (07:26)
Mm-hmm.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (07:37)
And then since they're just really trying to grow, but I love how the narrative around finances and talking about money has shifted in social work because when I started, was like, it was very much you're in it for the outcome, not the income. And so I just had that in my head. I was like, ⁓ okay, I just won't expect to make much money. And that was the expectation. And I was just going to live a life of poverty for myself. ⁓
Faith Voss (07:55)
you
Catherine Moore, LCSW (08:05)
But there came a time where, I mean, real life was happening and I'm thinking, OK, I can't afford to be a social worker anymore because these bills are not going to pay themselves and I'm not trying to to have my master's degree and be poor. And so that's around the time that I got licensed and I started the podcast. And I just really started talking about like, what are our options when we have a social work degree?
Faith Voss (08:05)
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (08:32)
And so now I just love that there's this message that you can in fact have income and impact in the same thing and you don't have to feel burnt out doing it. It is a graceful balance, I will say, that takes a lot of practice and skill set and a high level of self-awareness, but it is possible. It's just, I believe that it's a skill that we're all learning and growing in.
Taylor (08:58)
Yeah, absolutely. And I agree. think it's really great that we're kind of highlighting this conversation and maybe giving hope to some people who, ⁓ you know, are feeling like, you know, they've maybe told their family, yeah, I'm going to be studying social work. And then they get this response like, ⁓ God, you're going to be poor, you know. And obviously, there are these salaries that are really
Faith Voss (08:58)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Taylor (09:28)
still concerning and there are also these salaries where it's like, wow, social workers are actually making decent money, you know. ⁓ I think Faith and I have been trying to kind of have this balance of still advocating for social workers ⁓ in these roles where they're severely underpaid, being exploited essentially, but also giving exposure to, you know,
career paths and just showing social workers that there are also ways to make money in this field or as a social worker. So it's interesting that like both things are happening right now in the field.
Faith Voss (10:10)
I'm curious, Catherine, ⁓ yeah, I'm curious, Catherine, you mentioned in grad school kind of getting this message about like, you know, being in it for the outcome, not the income. So what do you wish someone had told you about salaries when you were in your master's program? Like looking back, what do you wish they kind of had told you about salaries or that topic?
Catherine Moore, LCSW (10:11)
For sure, yeah.
Yeah, you know, I think that it's really important to know you get what you look for. So if you have for me, I had to figure out my finances. What salary did I need to have? And then from there, what kind of jobs are going to pay me that salary? I did. I wasn't thinking like that. I was thinking just so desperate, like, let me just find a job, any job. But now
Faith Voss (10:43)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Taylor (11:01)
I need to.
Faith Voss (11:02)
Yeah, right.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (11:04)
Now, I do understand as a privilege, right? Because I do have a job, I do have income. So that is a privilege to have the space to say, OK, I need this income and I'm not entertaining any kind of offers that are not going to meet this income. And so that's what I wish somebody would tell me is, hey, you need to figure out what it is that you need and how you're going to get there right out of grad school. It's totally normal to not make that much money because you're still growing your skill set.
You're still learning, you're not licensed yet, and especially depending on location and experiences and certifications. But you can use those years, I would say, I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong, maybe two years out of grad school that you're getting your footing and you're really trying to figure out what your niche is and where you're go and what certifications you need, all these things. But after that, mean, the sky's the limit with that. And I'm sure too, there are some...
some entry level positions that do pay more, but I imagine they're just harder to find. And so I think really just like setting up that expectation of like, you can make money, it's okay if it takes a little bit of time, you will get there, please don't drop out and burn out of social work before you get there. So that would be it, yeah.
Faith Voss (12:07)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Right, yeah, right. That's a real
thing, right? A lot of social workers are like, I don't know if I can stay in the field with kind of the cost of living being so high and the burnout rate being so high and I paid all this money for this degree and how am gonna make my student loans? And so yeah, I think that that's really good advice. That's really good advice. ⁓
Taylor (12:37)
Yeah. Yeah.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (12:38)
Yeah. And also,
also to like your entry level job is not your forever job. Like some people are like, I got this job and I'm, don't like it. I just want to get out of social work. Like it's not your forever job. It's just a stepping stone. I had to quit my first job because that's just what their business model was is they hired new grads at a low rate. And then once I got licensed, they're like, we're not giving you a raise. This is just what it is. And so I had to leave because once I got licensed, yeah.
Taylor (12:44)
Yes.
Faith Voss (12:44)
Mm-hmm.
boy. boy.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (13:08)
Yeah, once I got licensed, was like, all right, well, I need to make more money now. So bye guys. But it wasn't anything personal. It was just their business, their business model.
Faith Voss (13:09)
Yup.
Taylor (13:14)
you
Faith Voss (13:14)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, right. That's a good way to think about it too. And I think also like being okay leaving a job, like as a social worker, Taylor, you've talked about this before, like it's okay to leave, like it's okay to, you know, kind of choose the next thing that's going to maybe pay more or yeah.
Taylor (13:30)
Right. Yeah. And
it's okay that if the reason you're leaving is because you need more money, period. Like, that can be the only reason because we have bills, but you know, like, it's all right. ⁓ So let me talk a little bit about the salaries. I pulled some, you know, just like various trends. It's kind of interesting. ⁓ I think...
Faith Voss (13:37)
Yeah, uh-huh, totally.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (13:42)
100%.
Taylor (13:58)
There's, like we were talking about earlier, there's just like a wide range of salaries from $20,000 for like very part-time roles to $300,000. Yes, there are social workers making $300,000 even in the 200s. So yeah, that's super fascinating.
In the, under 40,000 was about 10 to 12%, so that's like mostly BSW roles, part-time roles, community mental health, some school social work roles, and then new grads in lower paying regions. The...
Catherine Moore, LCSW (14:30)
Hmm.
Faith Voss (14:30)
Ugh.
⁓ boy,
Taylor (14:40)
kind of the largest percentage of the 1,500 salaries was between 40,000 and 60,000. So that's like newer MSWs in community mental health centers. I remember as a new grad, even in 2018, making $40,000 in a community mental health center. Many school social workers, medical social workers in low paying regions.
Faith Voss (14:59)
Hmm.
Taylor (15:04)
second kind of biggest cluster was between 60,000 and 80,000, so about 30 to 35%. So hospital social workers, macro roles, program coordinators, some agency therapists. And then now we're getting into a little bit of the higher salary. So between 80,000 and 100,000 we have was about.
10 to 12 % supervisors, senior clinicians, certain public health roles, macro managers, directors, ⁓ and then, you know, 100 plus, $100,000 plus is corporate roles, program directors, government roles, higher earning hospital roles, consultants, private practice clinicians, corporate. I think those are like.
you know, kind of very expected, I feel like. It's interesting kind of seeing it broken down because as I'm reading it out, like, this this does make sense to me, you know, like this is what do you think, Catherine? Is that kind of in line with what you kind of understand about the salary kind of landscape?
Faith Voss (16:06)
Yeah. Yeah.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (16:16)
Yes, yes, absolutely. The lower it's really depending on your educational level, if you have any special certifications and also your location and the businesses available in your area. For example, you mentioned medical social work in some low paying areas. Yeah, people who may be working for a nonprofit or a community health center, they may not be making as much money as somebody working for a major corporation hospital.
you know, someone in, I don't know, Ohio, maybe making less than somebody based out of Los Angeles, right, or San Francisco. So it just depends on the area. So which for me, it gives me hope that if you are in a medical social work job or any kind of role that you're not making much money, there's skills to be learned there that you can maximize on in order to help climb up that financial ladder.
Faith Voss (16:54)
Hmm.
Taylor (17:12)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Faith Voss (17:12)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Taylor (17:14)
And one thing I feel like I remember in grad school was just the, I don't know, I feel like there's no blanket statements that we really can make in terms of these salaries, maybe some, but one that I was thinking of just as a medical social worker is I remember people saying like, the medical social worker is like, that's where, know, that's like the highest paying, but it also kind of depends with all of these jobs, it depends on where you live. Yeah, I live on the West Coast, sure, it's well paying, but one of my coworkers
who used to live in Louisiana as an ED social worker was making, you know, 40,000. So I think that's really, you know, something that we all have to take into account. So, yeah.
Faith Voss (17:57)
Yeah,
yeah, I think that's a really good point for sure.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (17:58)
And one little
less, one little lesser known area is for travel social work. And I've heard of school social work ⁓ and medical social work, sorry. So you can sign up as a medical social worker, school social worker for travel positions. And the ones that I've seen lately have been like 2000 a week, which is pretty decent. Yeah.
Taylor (18:16)
Yeah,
Faith Voss (18:17)
Mm-hmm,
that is pretty decent.
Taylor (18:18)
yeah, I have seen that. I also, go ahead, go ahead, Faith.
Faith Voss (18:21)
This.
⁓ I was just going to ask another question, but go ahead, Taylor.
Taylor (18:27)
I also was going to say, like, I think there has been growing conversation around, like, corporate and non-traditional roles. ⁓ It seems like with the entries that we have, those ones have shown really, you know, decent compensation. ⁓ So just wanted to highlight that, like, you know, trust and safety, know, tech, we talked about that ⁓ in a previous episode, two previous episodes. ⁓
Faith Voss (18:52)
Yes, yes.
Taylor (18:56)
evaluation, research, program management. I think, you know, those seem to kind of fall more under this macro lens. And so I think there's definitely some, you know, good earning potential there. And I personally didn't really know much about macro social work when I was in school.
I was just like, I don't know what they're doing over there, like, I'm doing this. But I kind of wish, now that I know what it is, I'm like, that would have totally been my jam. So anyways. ⁓
Faith Voss (19:18)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Hmm. Well, and also
actually Taylor, I remember in grad school hearing that macro social workers didn't make a lot of money. I actually remember hearing that. Yeah. Cause I remember one of our friends was doing, yeah, she was doing her internship in macro and she was like, it's really hard to find a job. I don't think I'm going to make a lot. And I was like, okay, well maybe I shouldn't go to macro. Cause I really would have loved to do macro. And so it is exciting to hear that there are opportunities out there for macro social workers to make a livable wage. And also just want to do a little shout out. If you work in tech.
Taylor (19:34)
That's interesting.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (19:36)
Interesting.
Mm.
Taylor (19:44)
Fascinating.
Faith Voss (19:57)
and you are a social worker, please fill out the salary survey because we'd love to know what you're making because I think it's potentially higher ⁓ salaries. ⁓ But Catherine, the question I'm curious about is, because we're talking about salaries and around that topic, ⁓ what do you think social workers should know about the future of the field when it comes to compensation?
Catherine Moore, LCSW (20:19)
Yeah, for sure. There's this is such a loaded question, but I love it. There is that this could be like a whole podcast episode in itself, but there's so many different ways. I think that what we're going to see going forward is a diversification and just so many different options to use our skills in new ways. Right. So AI is a thing. It's here. It is here to stay. And.
Faith Voss (20:25)
Yeah.
Mm.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (20:46)
I believe it's never ever going to replace the work that social workers do, the work that therapists do, because people don't want to talk to a robot when they're feeling down or when they're in crisis, when they're at school, they need to talk to a real human. So if you have those human skills, if you have those skills that are not going to be replaceable by AI, which is what we do, right, then that's going to be huge. Also, so many opportunities to diversify your income.
So for me, I've worked really hard on diversifying my income. Right now I have eight income streams. So it's going to be, yeah, yeah. And so I've like, I feel like I've planted these seeds, right? So first and foremost, it's therapy. And then I had to write them all down because I forget them. But therapy, I do clinical, yeah.
Faith Voss (21:23)
Wow.
Taylor (21:38)
That's the goal, having so many income streams
that you forget that you need to kind of think slowly. How many do it? How many ways am I making money?
Faith Voss (21:41)
Yeah, like wait what? Yeah.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (21:48)
Yeah,
Faith Voss (21:49)
That's great.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (21:49)
yeah. ⁓ But just for your reference, ⁓ so doing therapy, I am a clinical supervisor. I created the supervision log and resource guide. So that's a book available on Amazon. ⁓ I've I own the Rise directory. I also have the Social Workers Rise podcast. I have two courses and then I also get affiliate income from various organizations such as PESI and other.
Faith Voss (22:00)
Yes. Okay.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (22:16)
⁓ Independent like course creators and mental health professionals that offer affiliates too. Yeah, so there's a lot there. Yeah. Yeah. So it's really Yeah, yeah, so while I'm not a millionaire I at least feel like I have all of these seeds planted So should something happen like maybe my main mental health platform goes down which has happened in the past
Faith Voss (22:24)
Awesome. Thanks for sharing that. think that's super helpful to hear.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (22:42)
⁓ I still have these other income streams that I can really start to nurture and to grow and to expand. ⁓ And so there's always options there. ⁓ And also too, social work is not going away. So there's going to be job security in this field, especially if you're able to focus in on AI, on school social work, on medical social work. All of these areas are expanding and the awareness of society
and culture and politics and the people who have all of the money, it's expanding and they're really starting to see the value of mental health workers. that is that. What do you girls think about that?
Taylor (23:25)
Yeah, no, I think that's really great. I think some, I feel like kind of goes into our practical, actionable takeaways for the listeners. think, you know, trying to diversify your income is great. I think also the job titles thing, you know, I've really been trying to highlight recently that social workers,
it's sometimes hard to find jobs because we don't know what to search, right? Because we have this degree, but our job title could be program director, know, wellness resource advocate, like wellness specialist, like all these various things. So I think as we're kind of coming out and searching for jobs, we're searching social worker and. ⁓
You know, we all know what kind of jobs those bring, what kind of jobs and salaries like come up when, when we do that. So I've created this community. I just started it just kind of curating these job titles in various sectors. So I have transplant, there's healthcare, finance, sports, corporate, know, macro tech, public health, like there's all these different places that we can work as social workers. And I think.
It's helpful for us to just understand that we can be, we can work in all of these different industries. It's not just mental health. And so I think trying to help people just ⁓ see the possibilities of what we can do with this degree. ⁓ So I think job titles is really kind of something to focus on in terms of how you're searching in for jobs.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (25:13)
I made a list of over 100 job titles that you can have as a social worker. I can send that to you girls. It's been super helpful, just like you mentioned, for people to know what to search for and to get ideas.
Faith Voss (25:25)
That's awesome. No, I was just gonna say, Catherine, I love your point about AI. I think that that's really relevant. think I've met with a couple clients who have said like, ⁓ you know, I wanna do social work or that's something I wanna be pursuing, but like what about AI and what about like my job just kind of being taken by AI? And I think your point is really valid. I think the opposite is gonna be true. I think people are craving human connection and I think they want to work with.
humans, anything, I think it's gonna push more mental health ⁓ kind of issues potentially and more need for mental health services in our society. And there was ⁓ another person, I can't remember their name right now, but they were getting their PhD in kind of humanities and like how that intersects with AI. And they kind of were talking about the next 10 years, what's gonna be the most popular professions and the first.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (25:58)
Yes.
Faith Voss (26:19)
three were like tech, you know, kind of related professions, but then the next seven were all humanities. And so I think like in the next 10 years or so, humanities is really gonna be popping off as like a career that you should be pursuing and there are gonna be, there's gonna be such a need for it. I mean, there already is a need, but I think there's gonna continue to be a need for that. So I think that's a really good point that you brought up. Yeah.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (26:40)
For sure. that
and hearing stories and public speaking, I think that's going to be a really high demand area as well. It's just how well do you tell stories? How can you communicate? Because people want to hear real authentic stories, especially on things like this, like the podcast, right? Unfiltered, real, people know that it's authentic. It's not some made up robot story. It goes a long way.
Taylor (27:06)
Yeah, you know, I I listened to a podcast that was like completely AI because apparently there's this agency who's just pumping out. It's really sad, actually. There's this agency who's pumping out these AI podcasts to make money. And I don't know how they're making money, but the whole episode was just like an AI voice. was so it was so weird. It's like this is not this is not what we want. We like you said, we want the.
Faith Voss (27:12)
Mm.
Mm.
Mm.
Taylor (27:34)
Connection, we want the transparency, authenticity, all that. think that's, yeah. Another, I feel like, practical takeaway, and you mentioned this earlier when you were talking about your own kind of job search out of grad school, just like, what do you actually need to live? Knowing your actual cost of living, how much do you spend a month? ⁓
Faith Voss (27:53)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor (27:59)
you know, obviously that kind of takes some time to sit down and review your expenses. But I think then that can help you when you're searching for jobs to be more informed about what you need to actually live ⁓ a good life. I remember just throwing out a number. like, I want to make 60,000. I don't know where that that number just I just made it up. It had no, I was not informed at all. So ⁓ yeah.
Faith Voss (28:21)
you
Catherine Moore, LCSW (28:26)
Yeah, for sure. That's what I did. for a long time, I was scared of my finances because I'm like, there's nothing there. I don't want to look at it. And it took me a long time to really sit down with myself and realize I need to figure out all of my bills. I need to figure out not only currently, but what do I want? I want to save X number for retirement. I want to put X number in a 529 for my child. I want to have vacation money. Right.
So also factoring in my bills, my needs, my foods, health insurance is a whole nother thing. And, ⁓ and my wants too. So that became my goal salary is like, I want to make this. And to be honest, I'm still getting there because I have expensive taste and I'm still figuring out like, like, how do I make this possible and pay off all my credit card bills at the same time? ⁓ so it's a work in progress.
Faith Voss (28:55)
Mm-hmm.
Hahaha
Taylor (29:18)
You
Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. That's so funny. Last two things I'll say about just like, you know, thinking of ways to think about your salary and is thinking about total compensation. So, you know, not just hourly hourly rate, but like, is there a retirement match? Do you need supervision? Are they paying for it? Are you going to have to go elsewhere? You know, licensure, stipend, pay time off, schedule, flexibility.
Faith Voss (29:28)
You
Taylor (29:53)
You know, are you on call? Do you get paid? I recognize that not all of these things are like direct money in your pocket. And sometimes that really makes the most difference, you know. But yeah, these are other things that are also factored into your compensation. ⁓ And then negotiating your salary. It's OK. It's OK. Ask for more money when they come back to you and say, this is what we're offering you.
Faith Voss (30:13)
Do it.
Taylor (30:23)
It's gonna be stressful for a moment, but you can, you can do it, right?
Faith Voss (30:29)
Yeah,
yeah, for sure.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (30:31)
Always ask for more money. Always. I frame it like this. Like, I think about it. Okay, if somebody paid you $10,000 a year for asking one question, would you do it?
Taylor (30:35)
I'm ⁓
Mm-hmm. Ooh.
Faith Voss (30:47)
Hmm. Yes. That's a great way to think about it.
Taylor (30:50)
Yes. Yes.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (30:53)
Yes.
Taylor (30:54)
feel like it is so, you're just like expecting the call, you know, or maybe it's through email, but I think I've had most of my negotiations have been over the phone. And so I tell people like, it's really helpful to just even have like make up a script and just have it on your phone because I promise you, you will be nervous when they call. And so having something that you can read.
Faith Voss (31:06)
Yeah.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (31:16)
Yes.
Taylor (31:19)
Just ready there in your notes app is so helpful and you'll get over it. You'll be okay, you will make it through. And they're expecting you to come back with another number. They really are.
Faith Voss (31:33)
Yeah,
and if you get a response that's really kind of shady or shaming for asking for more pay, you should maybe take that job because you don't want to be working for people that don't think
your salary progression. And so I think everything you guys are talking about is so important because social work grads aren't taught.
how to negotiate their salary or that they should even be thinking about salary. They're only taught what population you want to work with, what do you want to focus on, how do you want to serve, which is all good, but we also need to be talking about these things and that it's okay. And then also our profession is mainly, you know, heavily women dominated. so, you know, women don't negotiate ⁓ our salaries in general. So it's kind of like a two for one. I don't know. I don't know what I'm saying. I think you guys get what I'm saying, but yeah, it's super important.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (32:20)
For sure. You do, yes. You know
Taylor (32:21)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Faith Voss (32:24)
Thank you. Thank you.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (32:24)
exactly what you're saying, Faith. And also, yeah, yeah. And also, I would recommend talking to somebody outside of social work as a practice. So if you know anybody in any kind of business or any kind of like place where they're more business oriented, they're about the numbers, practice with that.
Faith Voss (32:38)
Mmm.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (32:47)
Don't practice with a warm and fluffy person like me, because I'm going to give you 100 % validation. But make sure that you practice with somebody who's going to give you like honest direct feedback like, no, you need to sound more assertive. You need to sound more confident. You need to sound more clear. Whatever it is, that's going to go a long way too.
Faith Voss (32:53)
Hahaha
That's a good advice.
Taylor (33:07)
Yeah, yeah,
absolutely. I love that. Any other practical takeaways anyone wants to share? was all I got.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (33:17)
Yeah, I think last one, keep listening to podcasts like this. Listen to to people talking about money. Listen to the Social Works Rise podcast. I interview a lot of people over there about their careers, about the skills that you need to know. And I always like to take away what is one thing that we can do to start getting started on this career path, especially if you're looking for transitions, if you're looking for growth opportunities. It's a really great pod.
Faith Voss (33:17)
You
Catherine Moore, LCSW (33:45)
podcast to explore those different options too.
Taylor (33:47)
Yes, absolutely, absolutely. Awesome. Well, let's end with our money moment. How about we do that? So I guess for people who are new here, a money moment is just continuing to normalize the conversation around money and us being transparent about kind of our financial journey. ⁓ It's a, you know, insight, a failure, reflection, really anything that you want to share and maybe, you know, hope someone can take a little something away. ⁓ I'll share mine.
real quick, it's about my credit card and I missed my credit card payment last month. So I got a forty dollar late fee and this is my own fault that I don't have it on automatic payment. ⁓ But I just opened up the app. I got in that chat real quick and said, hey, I missed my payment. It was I was a daily. So I paid, you know, I made a payment and then. ⁓
Faith Voss (34:24)
Ugh.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (34:26)
Hmm.
Taylor (34:46)
I went in the chat and asked them, hey, can you refund me? I just made a payment, you know, and they were like, yes, we can do that. That's it. I just had to ask. Sometimes you just have to ask. Yeah. So.
Faith Voss (34:56)
Nice! ⁓
Awesome. Catherine, what's your money moment?
Catherine Moore, LCSW (35:04)
I have a lot lately. ⁓ But mine revolves around health care because it's open enrollment time. I'm based in California. Health care rates are changing. I know I'm not alone is very validating. I saw this on Facebook that people were experiencing the same thing I am that their payment in twenty twenty five was one and then coming twenty twenty six. It's hundreds of dollars more per month. Yes, so I'm.
Faith Voss (35:13)
Mm.
my gosh. boy.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (35:33)
I'm freaking out over here. So just normalizing if you're freaking out, it's okay. For me, I am going to open up an HSA, a health savings account, which is going to my understanding of it is it's going to take my money and put it in the health savings account. And then that's going to be untaxed. And so from there, I'm going to pay my health insurance bill with that. So even though I am paying more extra, it's not counting towards my income for for the year for 2026.
So that is, ⁓ that's what I'm setting up this at this time. What about you, Faith?
Faith Voss (36:08)
That actually, you know, to be transparent, I didn't have a money moment, but now I do. I just thought of one, which is great. Um, and it actually kind of is building off of what you just shared, Catherine. So I, as many of you guys know, I just had a baby and so we are starting to pay for childcare, which is so freaking expensive. Um, it's so, um, like, don't even want to share how expensive it is. No, it's like, it's like $2,200 a month.
Taylor (36:13)
You ⁓
How expensive is it?
You
Catherine Moore, LCSW (36:35)
Yep. Yep.
Faith Voss (36:36)
So we're kind of
like, we love, we love, huh, we love our child, but whoa, that is a lot of money. ⁓ so my husband was like looking at our budget always. That's what he does. And, ⁓ I think it's called an FSA, what FSA card is what it's called. ⁓ huh. So you can open one of those and you can put money on that, which is also a pre-tax and you can use it to pay for your daycare.
Taylor (36:38)
That is more than my rent.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (36:54)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor (36:55)
flexible
savings account. Yes.
Faith Voss (37:06)
So we are like, we're doing this because we really could use that help. So yeah, that's what we're doing and we'll see how it works. But so far I'm excited because then we can kind of maybe save a little bit of money in the process. Yeah.
Taylor (37:20)
Man, childcare, healthcare,
I feel like those are two things that like other countries really, really got it down about how to support. Like this is really just highlighting, you know, how behind we are as a country, because there are other countries who have free childcare, free healthcare. Like those are stresses that people don't even have to worry about.
Faith Voss (37:29)
Yep.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (37:43)
Yep,
yep, for sure.
Taylor (37:45)
Yeah.
Faith Voss (37:45)
⁓
money.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (37:48)
Hahaha
Taylor (37:48)
Well,
thank you so much, everyone, for listening. Thank you, Catherine. I love that we were able to do this. Listen to the Social Workers Rise podcast. Check out Social Work to Wealth podcast. ⁓ Yeah, thanks for tuning in. And we'll talk to you soon. Yes.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (37:49)
You
Faith Voss (37:52)
Thank you.
Catherine Moore, LCSW (38:04)
And make sure you're subscribed. If you haven't subscribed already, hit that little subscribe button. Yeah.
Faith Voss (38:10)
Yes.
Taylor (38:12)
Alright everyone, take care.