30. Building a Forensic Evaluation Practice with Tireeka Watson, LCSW

Taylor Gilbert (00:00)
Hello everyone, welcome back to the Social Work to Wealth podcast. I'm Taylor, your host of the day, and I'm here with a very special guest, Tireeka Watson. She is here to talk with us about forensic social work, which I am super excited about. There have been people who are just, this is a growing field, and I think a lot of people are interested in this topic. I've gotten messages about this. ⁓
One funny thing, I just have to tell the story about how we met because this is seriously, this is wild. So I'm on TikTok. I find Tireeka on TikTok. I'm like, ⁓ cool. Another person sharing about social work stuff. This is super interesting. She seems cool. She's on live. She's she's going live on TikTok and I'm, you know, I'm messaging her and she mentioned something about.
I think you mentioned something about like, oh yeah, I got offered this salary. It was so low, it's ridiculous, whatever, you know, it was like 40,000. And you said something like, oh yeah, I'm on the West Coast, and da da, and we're talking about how, you know, social workers need to be paid more, et cetera. And I was like, oh, where do you live? She was like.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (01:00)
you
Right.
Taylor Gilbert (01:20)
I live in Oregon. And I said, what? I live in Oregon. What are you talking about? Come to find out. I mean, I just moved from Portland. I moved away from Portland in May, but come to find out we both had been living in Portland for like the same for like five years. We both were living in Portland, but it gets weirder. It gets weirder. I go on her LinkedIn. ⁓
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (01:42)
Right, right.
Taylor Gilbert (01:49)
And I'm like, wait a second. Did you grow up in River? Did you grow up in Riverside, California? She says, yes, I grew up in Riverside, California. We went we didn't go to the same high school, but our high schools were rivals. That is. That is so weird. Two Riverside girls move into Portland. On TikTok.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (02:05)
Right, yes.
Right.
on TikTok.
Taylor Gilbert (02:18)
Talking about social work stuff. Anyways, and here we are talking about forensic social work on the podcast. Well, welcome to the podcast.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (02:22)
Right.
Yes. Thank
you so much. I'm very excited to be here as you know. Very excited. I made it.
Taylor Gilbert (02:34)
Well, I
think you made it.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (02:40)
Yeah.
Taylor Gilbert (02:40)
I love it,
I love it. So, I think, you know, for people who don't know you, just kind of like, you know, share who you are and how you came into social work and all the things.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (02:52)
Yeah, so my name is Tireeka Watson Most people do call me Ty. ⁓ And I am a licensed clinical social worker who has ⁓ extensive background in many different forensic spaces, whether it's court, whether it's working in public defense, whether it's working as a forensic evaluator. ⁓ And also the flip side of that is working with the sheriff's department, working in the fire department as a mental crisis responder.
So there my knowledge also stems from just being in spaces that most people have a fear of getting into. So even I was an interim director of a psych hospital here in Oregon. ⁓
had that opportunity as a manager and a dual, it was a dual position, both a manager and a director at the same time. And I realized then I truly enjoy spaces that are difficult to most people. I don't know why.
they're difficult to most people I think is because of the stigma related to the spaces that we're in. But it's the exact same population that we serve in the community mental health or on a day to day basis. So I just.
just had a background every time I tried to go to a different role, because everyone sees my resume and they're like, dang, you have some really interesting roles that they never would have seen anywhere available. It's because I knew at the end it will help me understand where I want to go as a social worker, how I want to elevate. And then on top of that, it's the direction of forensics.
still was calling me back every time I tried to run to something else in the back of my mind I knew I still had a heart for forensics.
Taylor Gilbert (04:50)
Mm-hmm. So let's take it back to you kind of coming into social work. What did you want to do when you were starting social work? What were your interns internships like? Like give us a little bit about your journey there.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (05:07)
So ⁓ of course, not the traditional route as most people would like to claim now, which is not actually getting a BSW. I didn't start with a BSW in social work. I think that was just forming when schools, when I started to go to school for my bachelor's. So I didn't really have great, ⁓ a great understanding of it because I went to school for psychology initially. And my professor at the time told me,
you talk too much. You need to go and you'll be better suited in like sociology because I was always asking like well what about this and why is that what about like always why in class and then he's just like this is not the class for you ⁓ and encouraged me to check it out and I did I checked out sociology ⁓ so my bachelor's in sociology and from there I was able to start with forensics. My internships
was in forensics and I was working for a probation department in California. Right. But the funny story, because as you know, the schools in Cal State are very large in numbers when it comes to classrooms. So my classroom had like maybe 90 students in it and not even including the other classes that my professor had at the time in sociology. They called her and they said, hey, do you know who so and so is? She's here for
Taylor Gilbert (06:10)
Whoa.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (06:36)
her internship, that professor didn't even remember who I was and said no and they canceled my internship by accident. So I was interning for a probation department and they forgot, the professor forgot who I was and I was like what the heck? So I had, we had to figure that out but at the end they gave me a good grade, they passed me because I couldn't get back into the system because they already removed my whole program.
So ⁓ that was my internship in a bachelor's level.
Taylor Gilbert (07:08)
But
you actually did the probation internship. It worked out OK.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (07:12)
Yeah,
yeah, they let I it was right at the end where they have to get like the end signatures and all that stuff I don't and I don't know why they were calling it was so weird like why would you call for me? Right when I'm saying that make no sense
So now I'm already jumping into a still forensic setting because it's now working with children who are impacted by child protective services and they want to either reunify children or they want to place them.
into foster care of some sort. So before even all this, before I even went to school, I was working in a youth sex offender home facility, residential facility that was owned by my aunt. And from then on, I said, I like these spaces. So I started my bachelor's. And then after that, I... ⁓
got into forensics again because I was told that my first job was going to be in clinic. So I thought I applied for a clinic role and it ended up turning out to be a jail. When I said I would like to tour the clinic when I showed up it was actually a jail. ⁓ Shortly after that I was able to start working in forensics with a BA in sociology as a behavioral health specialist. Enjoyed it so much. ⁓ Didn't know that this was going to be my
gig and until my supervisor Yvonne Tran ⁓ my gosh best supervisor in the world, gotta give her a shout out. She encouraged me to go back to school and get my masters so she pulled me aside she said people want to hear from you but I think if you have this degree they'll they won't be able to
go against what you're saying because you're already saying what a social worker would say. ⁓ So I went back to school, they created a schedule around me and ⁓ end up interning within the same county but for children.
Taylor Gilbert (09:19)
Not your not your jam. Like what like ⁓ when you say children, what were you doing?
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (09:23)
Dude!
So working with children, there's many different realms, as you know, there's many different realms that you can support children in. And the realm that I was in, was parent-child interaction therapy and IT.
Taylor Gilbert (09:37)
Yeah, I did that.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (09:39)
Right, I enjoyed it for a moment in time, but there were a lot of things that made it unjoyable. And I mentioned this many times. There's even, I love social work, I love the clients, but sometimes it's the spaces that we work in that make it very challenging. So I had a very difficult time in my internship, ⁓ but stuck it out, finished it. And I also had another internship working with a church during that same season and working
in a psych hospital at the same time. So I had these very unique ⁓ internships where I didn't realize that I was actually being prepared to kind of understand ⁓ the diagnoses that you would often see in psych hospitals or in jails or prisons, which is like schizophrenia, ⁓ bipolar, BPD. It could be many different things. So ⁓ after that,
Taylor Gilbert (10:34)
Mm-hmm.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (10:39)
It just took off from there and my masters finished, COVID hit, so I couldn't finish. ⁓ After I finished my internship during COVID, I graduated and then they had to push me out of the jails because COVID in the jails was just going.
Taylor Gilbert (10:58)
Yeah.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (10:58)
a wire and they didn't want us in the jails. So they promoted me to a ⁓ children's clinic in California and I knew then it's too many moving pieces that are for the delicateness of a child and I don't have capacity for it. I don't think I'm like well equipped for this space. ⁓
So then after that, I started to debate where can I go as a social worker where I can advance, where there's better opportunities. And so I chose Oregon blindly and ended up here.
Taylor Gilbert (11:33)
Mm-hmm.
So you landed in Oregon and then your first job was the were you the interim or not the interim, but were you the director and manager?
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (11:44)
No,
no. So was in public defense. I applied for a public defense, defender's office in Oregon while still in California because they needed someone to build their social work team in a city in ⁓ Oregon. And so I went ahead and applied and ended up getting the job on the spot and not knowing anything about Oregon. started to dive into the history of the state. ⁓
how they operated for years, their laws and all those things to kind of get familiar as to serving individuals that look like me and those that don't look like me, how can I be a part of this and be a solution, not a problem? ⁓ So I got that position shortly after saw the disconnect between public defense. Whoa.
Even in this role as a social worker in public defense, I started to do mitigation reports for the courts. So this is where forensic evaluation starts to pull in. ⁓ And I start to see what is my future going to look like not realizing.
what is what. So ⁓ there was a time where I was super stressed out. We'll probably circle back to that, but put a pin in that. When I was super stressed out and how I started to understand contracting for forensic evaluations, shortly after that I left and told everybody in the office that they will see me again because I will be back. And still to this day, I am back. ⁓ They...
Taylor Gilbert (13:20)
She's back.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (13:21)
back completely. Then I
Taylor Gilbert (13:23)
Guess who's
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (13:24)
I went to the jails to connect public defense and the jails together because they weren't communicating as effective as what I've witnessed in California. So I went back so then that way I can be a point of contact, which I was for my old job to make sure that they were getting through to mental health and behavioral health because sometimes all those emails gets mixed in the sauce and attorneys cannot get the record requests.
that they're asking for. ⁓ Shortly after that I got into, because again things were happening there, ⁓ discrimination was happening there towards me and yes it was founded to be.
after the investigation happened. So then I left from there and worked for public fire and rescue as a mental health crisis responder too, where I was not only training incoming mental health crisis responders, but also responding whenever there was a call coming into 911. I was the one going out.
Taylor Gilbert (14:22)
Wow.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (14:31)
to jump out of, and I was pregnant. I was fully pregnant jumping out of the rig, like jumping out saying, my gosh, what's going on being a therapist, but on the street. ⁓ And my colleagues were, I was always a partner of two. So it was myself as the mental health crisis responder, along with an EMT. So it was mind, body.
Taylor Gilbert (14:45)
Wow.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (14:59)
Spirit in in full effect whenever we went out to see somebody based off and I would see all the calls coming in from 9-1-1 and they would dispatch us individually out to ⁓ So got pranked to have my baby ⁓
Taylor Gilbert (15:11)
Wow.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (15:16)
Worked all the way up until he was born, then had him. Then that's when I worked at the psych hospital as a manager and then quickly promoted me to a interim director. I shortly, I left after that to be part-time because I knew I wanted to build my private practice shortly after that.
Taylor Gilbert (15:35)
Mm-hmm.
When you say private practice, you're talking about therapy or your forensic consulting or both.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (15:42)
Yes, so
I knew I wanted to do the both of them together, but I didn't know what that would look like. I didn't know how it was going to look because in the back of my mind, I'm seeing all these therapists as we see, you know. ⁓
the frolicking therapy like we're we're just here doing therapy with you know everybody's therapy practice looks different and I knew for me I wasn't able to ⁓ fit the mold I was constantly noticing that in social work there's a mold that is unspoken that if elders in social work or whomever in social work sees you not fit that box they start to question as to whether or not you are actually a effective social worker
And so I was constantly trying to be placed in a box, shoved in a box. So now I have that same mentality. And when you get out of these systems, you have to literally work on your mindset to realize that the clients for you will be for you and they will come for you. You will end up aligning yourself with the people that are meant to see you. So I couldn't figure it out. I was trying to be a therapist for...
high achieve, was so much. was just trying to adapt until the evaluation started to come in when I was working for a hospital ⁓ as a medical social worker that was for outreach. life was happening at the same time, trying to figure out my personal life, trying to figure out a business, trying to figure out where am I gonna go raising a one year old by myself. It was just so much happening all at once. So I realized, okay,
Show me the way. Powers. AB, show me the way. Where, where, where, because I'm running like a headless chicken. What's, what's, what's here for me? Where do I go? Because I'm, I know I'm unique in my approach to things. So I started to build relationships in the community. My marketing strategies are completely different from a lot of people. ⁓ now that I see there's more at that time, I thought it was completely different, but seeing other therapists.
who market the same way. It's different when you are hustling and you know in Oregon it rains. I have videos of myself walking in the rain with my flyer promoting myself. have videos, I have my flyers were wet. I print out 50 at office max. Never don't do that people. Don't print up, they're expensive.
print about something other way, about your job if you have a job.
I tried to print them out and then I just started posting my flyer everywhere hoping and wishing for clients. And sure enough, I was full within the first couple months because I opened up in February, started the business in January, opened up in February and I was completely full while going to work part time at the hospital. I started to get evaluations. I started to market myself for that too. And ⁓ with my same job, I told my previous director, said, I'm ready.
I told my colleague that still works, she's my friend, I told my friend that still works in public defense. I'm ready to do this work. Started to fire, started to promote myself and now today, it's on and popping.
Taylor Gilbert (19:05)
Mm-hmm.
Full-time, private practice owner, and yeah, forensics.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (19:15)
Yes, I think that looks different. It's a forensics
private practice. It just is and I'm so happy. I couldn't be happier.
Taylor Gilbert (19:27)
It's so interesting to hear about your just kind of journey and it's almost every position you've had has been forensics with in some sort of way, you know, so that's that's super interesting. ⁓ Can you maybe talk with us about what forensic social work is?
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (19:37)
Great.
Okay, so forensic social work is a... my gosh, it's social work being connected to any court system. That's kind of how, when people don't know what it is, I kind of like to frame it that way. Yeah, it helps people understand that... And then I try to go even deeper and say, where you're sitting right now, if you're working with geriatrics, there's a court system connected to them.
Taylor Gilbert (20:03)
That's a good description.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (20:19)
If you're working with children, there's a court system connected. It's parent and family. It's child welfare. If you're working with an older adult with disabilities, there's realms. It's an entire web just like social work and an umbrella of many different populations within it.
Taylor Gilbert (20:35)
you
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (20:40)
forensic social work is the legal system that serves individuals, families, and those that are involved in civil or criminal cases, from child custody disputes to criminal defense by providing either counseling. You can do case management. You can do expert testimony if you are ⁓ approved by a judge or there's another route that people can go through.
will or and advocacy and resource connection. Let me start over. I'm so sorry. Okay, so ⁓ forensic social work is social work that
Taylor Gilbert (21:16)
Cut.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (21:27)
is involved in a legal system serving individuals, families that are involved in civil or criminal criminal cases and from that goes from child custody that goes from disputes to criminal defense and a social worker our unique stance we can either provide therapy we can provide case management we can provide expert testimony or fact testimony and advocacy and resources which will also be
connected to case management as we know. ⁓
Taylor Gilbert (21:59)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. We have an episode, episode 22, where we talk with Erica. She's a forensic social worker and she does a lot of mitigation work. So I know that's a lot of what you do. We won't go too into details about that. If people are interested, definitely go check that one out, episode 22. ⁓ But can you describe kind of just...
What is it so it's connected to the courts, you know, but what are maybe you talk about a little bit about what you do specifically. So you do mitigation work. That's mostly what you do, right?
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (22:28)
point.
Yes. Yes.
So when I was in ⁓ public defense as an employee, was a, excuse me.
when I was working in public defense as a social worker, I was then also considered a forensic social worker. And in that case, I was doing social work. was looking for resources, ⁓ scheduling appointments for individuals, doing mitigation reports. And then it shifted as a contractor. Today, now I'm a forensic evaluator that offers concierge case management along with the evaluations if needed or separated.
So the difference is forensics just allows people in social work to have great impact and you can actually see the results ⁓ on a day-to-day basis. This is the field that I feel like is left behind many times, time and time again, because people don't understand the complexity of forensics that anybody can be in forensics.
If you have the ideas, there's people that will post on my TikTok and say, I've been thinking about forensics, but I don't know how to get in. There are so many different levels that you can get. You can be a bachelor's, you can have no degree, you can have a master's degree, you have a license of some sort. And it doesn't just stop with social work. Because of the need of individuals needing to be in forensics, any discipline can be in forensics. It's a matter of, like you always talk about, is aligning your skills.
with the job description to make sure that the two are, that your work is transferable to that role. So it's a space that I truly want and really speak highly of to get people in the doors, just to have them try it.
Taylor Gilbert (24:39)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. So you're trained in doing the mitigation work, and what else? What other kind of things do do?
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (24:48)
⁓ various evaluations. So that's mitigation reports. What else? Dual diagnosis and parenting and custody evaluations. there's so many evaluations that I have to constantly there's over 40. And I really have to
Taylor Gilbert (25:08)
That's a lot
of evaluations.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (25:09)
Right. Because a
lot of people, even with me being trained in immigration evaluations, I have to be mindful that that's all people see. When they hear forensics, some people don't even realize that immigration evaluations, the five that are within those, are within forensics. And they are. That's just one sector of the.
14 populations that you can serve. And then within those 14, there are about 10 or 11 evaluations that you can do within each one. And then we're not even including the specialty evaluations within that. it's an evaluation for everybody to do. Everybody can learn. However, training is very important.
Taylor Gilbert (25:53)
Mm-hmm.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (26:00)
Getting training is very important. How was I trained? I was trained because I did the work already. And being eager to learn more and want more and ask for support to build my skills.
Taylor Gilbert (26:06)
Yeah.
What about people who, like, you know, me, for example, I'm a medical social worker. That's been my experience. If I wanted to get into doing the work that you do, forensic evaluations, contracting with counties, things like that, like, where would I start? What kind of training?
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (26:33)
training?
Well, there's many different kinds. There is trainings available from different organizations. ⁓ I just have to stress the importance for everybody. Yes.
There is a training. There are trainings in general. Some people, based on your state jurisdiction, you may have to get an additional training. So if you're in the state of New York, in order to do any parenting and custody evaluation, you have to get trained in that specific realm. If you work with drug and alcohol across any state, if you're evaluating for that, you need to be trained in that. So there's some evaluations that's based off of it, which is what I always
start by asking an individual is like, what population do you want to serve? Start with that. The second thing is, OK, with that population, there's going to be a slew of evaluations. You need to start with one or two and come to find out a lot of the staff, or not staff, a lot of the individuals that are doing the work right now and they're day to day, nine to five, they don't realize that their base
Taylor Gilbert (27:24)
Yeah.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (27:48)
evaluations that they do on a day-to-day basis is really the base for many of these evaluations with additional context to it to make sure that it is suited for forensics. So getting the training for the additional information on how to understand forensics if you don't have a background in it is going to support you moving forward because there's language and then there's ⁓
Taylor Gilbert (28:00)
Hmm.
Yeah.
I think also just like court context too. Like I have never, I'm trying to think in all of my roles, I've never interacted with a court system. And so I think sometimes there are roles that social workers can pivot to where it's like, you have all the skills, you don't need any additional certifications or trainings, just go apply, like put yourself out there, you know, connect with people who are doing it, network, things like that. I mean, that's all still applicable, but I think with this specific
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (28:16)
Yes. ⁓
Great.
Yes.
Yes.
Taylor Gilbert (28:44)
it seems like the additional trainings and education is kind of needed because I would I wouldn't even know what I was walking into if I tried.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (28:54)
There's no,
you can start, but you won't.
you won't have an everlasting sustainable career in it. ⁓ And that's what I'm building. That's what I have. You know, I can tell him that's what I'm building, but it's literally what I have is something that I can sustain because I'm, you have to keep up with the data. You have to keep up with the information of the population that you're serving. And the reason why I stress to focus on the population that you know the most is because you already have majority of that information down pat. So with you being in medical, you could technically do vocational.
⁓ You can do professional evaluations. can do anything.
Taylor Gilbert (29:34)
What's a professional
evaluation?
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (29:36)
So when someone comes in and they're saying, well, am I fit for duty? Those go together. ⁓ there's different ones that people can do. It's just stay within your lane. And then, too, with you being had worked in the hospital, you could pick any population. Because hospitals, jails, and community mental health, you see all of the spectrum.
Taylor Gilbert (29:42)
Mmmmm
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (30:06)
of mental health and all of you know I feel like those are the top greatest places to be to have a well-rounded scope within mental health or social work ⁓ that's going to serve you connected to court systems because believe it or not whether we are aware or unaware our documents are getting sent to somebody whether it's insurance or whether it's being subpoenaed for court whatever the case may be someone is gaining access to their records for some reason so
you're already adjacent to the court systems in my mind.
Taylor Gilbert (30:39)
Yeah.
So with you, your practice, have that, you know, you do therapy and you're doing these friends evaluations. Also, what does your day to day look like?
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (30:51)
my gosh. So on my calendar for just this week, because it's similar, I have to be mindful to leave some gaps and two hour gaps just to account for, well, really three hours to account for travel to where I'm going to interview the individual because my population is corrections. So I go into correctional facilities to provide evaluations. ⁓ So I leave a huge gap of time.
every week, ⁓ almost every, it was twice a week, but now it's every single day to the point where I'm getting emails from attorneys asking if I have availability for an evaluation, thus creating a schedule to where I have to move therapy clients to specific days and evaluations to.
Taylor Gilbert (31:42)
two other days, yeah. ⁓
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (31:42)
Yes, and right
now it's through the week. So every day this week I have an evaluation.
Taylor Gilbert (31:49)
Okay, let's for the for people who haven't listened to episode 22 with the other forensic social work episode. Just talk to us a little bit about what this evaluation actually is.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (32:02)
So it ranges. have the ones that I listed already. That is the ones that I'm focusing on because I don't have to venture out if I don't want to because what I have right now is plenty of individuals going through these systems that need some type of support. So for example, I have ⁓ dual diagnosis assessments that have been requested of me all week.
Taylor Gilbert (32:28)
That's from an attorney
for an individual who's in jail to help with their case. Okay.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (32:31)
Yes. Yes. Yes. ⁓
And then the other one is ⁓ this one's for juvenile, but it's a biopsychosocial, which if someone's listening to this right now, they're like, wait a minute. Biopsychosocial? Yes. Within legal context? Yes.
Taylor Gilbert (32:52)
Mm-hmm. We do this. Mm-hmm.
How does that help this youth?
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (33:02)
So I'm gathering the story of the youth and then painting a picture of what they're reporting back to me through my writing. So if you like creative writing and you love to write, ⁓ naturally what do we do in our practice is write and we provide a wealth of information. Some of us can be concise, some of us tell more of a story when we're writing and when do they try to tell us? Be concise for insurance purposes. But in this sense, you can have more of
based off of what someone is telling you. So how it works is an attorney will reach out to me, tell me a little bit about the story of the client as to why they are in the situation that they're in.
Shortly after, I sit with it a little bit to kind of figure out if this is a case that I want to be on. Because again, our names are going to be on the documents that are given to court. And I have to be mindful of that if this is paperwork that I am OK with my name being on. Yes, I have said no. Because court cases can range from anything. All of them. I have been on.
Taylor Gilbert (34:02)
So sometimes you say no.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (34:14)
all range of them. So... ⁓
Then once I decide, OK, I can move forward with this, then I go ahead and meet with the client, do my interview. Well, of course, do my informed consent, right? Because we're still doing the work. And start the interview process. Thank them so much. And then let them know that if they have any questions, comments, or concerns, they can let their attorney know. And then they will also have an opportunity to view the write-up shortly after it's completed.
Taylor Gilbert (34:28)
Mm-hmm.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (34:46)
So after that...
So after that, ⁓
I start to work. So from two hours, already accounted for, in the state that I'm in, they give you a set of hours to start off with, which is 10, and then you move on from there if you need additional time. So within those 10 hours, already used up two to interview the client. And now I'm just gathering collateral information, reading. ⁓ I'm researching about the crime committed. I'm researching about. ⁓
what this person could have done if the right support was in place. And then I suggest the support that it should be in place as an alternative sentence than them going to jail or prison or kid, you know, staying in juvenile hall
Taylor Gilbert (35:43)
so I feel like I know that you are doing a lot of marketing work to kind of get your foot in the door with, you know, these counties and relationships with attorneys. Can you talk a little bit about that and just like your approach? think I I feel like we've talked faith and I have talked a little bit about this in previous episodes of just.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (35:55)
Right. Yes.
Taylor Gilbert (36:08)
If we want something as social workers and even like building our own businesses, like we have to step out of our comfort zones. We have to reach out to people. And so I feel like that is key to why, I mean, it's not only key. It's you're amazing, which is why you've been successful. And no one knows you're amazing if you don't go out and try to talk to them. Right?
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (36:15)
Venus.
Right.
That's the key. I don't remember who told me this years ago, but they said, how can anyone know how dope you are if no one knows you and you don't say nothing? Like you just stand there, just walking past you.
Taylor Gilbert (36:48)
Yeah. Yeah.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (36:50)
That was my momentum. had a, I have an entire playlist. So anybody with the playlist, let me know. It will motivate you. This playlist will get, you will, you will get hyped to know I got to get things done. So I, when you're in an organization, they tell you their moral, their values, all the things you have to respect. But when it comes down to you, you don't have.
Taylor Gilbert (36:56)
We'll put the playlists in the show notes.
when it's
your own thing, when it's your own business, you kind of have to like build your own company culture and values and mission and that motivation. Yeah.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (37:19)
Yes, so now it's like, yes. Right.
Right.
Because it's just a party of one. It's an employee of one. I'm all everything. So I had that in the back of my mind. I was like, dang, who going to market this? And it's like, ⁓ you. So what did I do? I created flyers. My first flyer is hilarious, but I created it. We got to exactly just start. It doesn't have to be perfect. Just give yourself, if it looks like, just give yourself.
Taylor Gilbert (37:33)
Yeah.
We have to start somewhere.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (37:56)
80 % just when you feel like it's 80 % done just
print it and I promise you your 80 % will be to someone's 200%. And that's how I had to think about it. I was ⁓ like I said before, I'm walking in the rain in Oregon with my flyers smiling with my business cards. I just got printed from Canva. I was just so excited. And I walked into organizations that I knew that I work that I connected to while working in other entities. So whether I had to connect a client through ⁓ social services, department
of Human Services. I was bold. I had audacity is what I said. I had audacity. I had a meeting with the Department of Criminal Justice in my state, bypassed everybody, was like, excuse me, who is the manager? Who's the manager? Because again, I already was connected to all these entities as a staff member. But again,
Taylor Gilbert (38:35)
We have the audacity. Yes.
Okay.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (38:56)
It's not just being able to get into these spaces. You have to make sure that how you carry yourself, people can sense that you truly want to make an impact. You truly want to do great work. And you're not just trying to mooch off of things without actually ⁓ knowing what you're doing.
Taylor Gilbert (39:16)
The intent- the intention
is there.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (39:17)
Yes,
the intention was already there. I wanted to serve. I've always wanted to serve in some way, shape or form. That's what I truly feel that we are all here on this planet to do is serve each other in some capacity. So I knew then I had a I had a meeting shortly after I sent the email. The man answered the phone and was like, how did you get my number?
and you know, well, that's not the point right now. Let me introduce myself. I'm a new private practice owner. I'm culturally specific, and I would love to provide either mental health services or just introduce my services to your team a week after. Met with the entire probation and parole department and had a conversation with them, introduced myself, gave them cards, and the people that have seen me around get bullied.
Taylor Gilbert (39:42)
Hehehehehe
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (40:08)
Got to see me on the other side. Everything is full circle. Full circle. Now you see me. So. Yes.
Taylor Gilbert (40:09)
Mmm.
Wow, that's a full circle moment.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (40:24)
So then another marketing tip that I did was just place my flyers in, and that was for private practice. So placing my flyers in coffee shops. My flyer is still in a meat market in this state because I said, well, people love to go to this establishment. It's black owned. They're going to see my flyer. And sure enough, it's still there with my face at the front of the door. ⁓
And I posted that in February. So when it comes to forensic evaluations marketing, it's a different but similar ballgame. I thought to myself, where do these people hang out?
Taylor Gilbert (41:06)
I don't know the courts. I don't know where they hang out. Sorry.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (41:08)
Right!
You got it right. So I dressed up, went down to the court. I already had an evaluation that day, which this is a video on TikTok. And I just passed out my flyers to people who had briefcases and introduced myself. I even passed out my flyer to a ⁓ DA, but they said back to me, we can't accept this because you got to go through chain and command. So I said,
Taylor Gilbert (41:38)
Okay.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (41:40)
So
there's some people that can't accept things which now I understand the DA cannot because but public defense, private attorneys, they can accept all day.
Taylor Gilbert (41:51)
Are you
cold emailing people looking up like looking at law practices, cold emailing, sharing what you do?
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (41:54)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
I emailed a different county, introduced myself,
got business through them. ⁓ Just word of mouth has been helpful because again, how I carry myself and the way I work shows for itself that I'm truly invested in supporting people and having great impact for alternative outcomes. So I just got a call from the chief of a specific public defender's office here ⁓ asking for me to do a make
room and do an evaluation for Friday. ⁓ it's things like that that's telling me and it's affirming me that I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be.
Taylor Gilbert (42:36)
Mm-hmm, I love that. And a lot of this wouldn't have happened if you didn't put yourself out there in the way that you have. So, good job. I'm proud of you. Good work, good work. If someone is interested in, I don't know, in doing forensics, kind of what would be maybe a tip for them to get started? You know.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (42:47)
Thank you.
Have some audacity, you know?
Start there.
Taylor Gilbert (43:06)
It's mindset.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (43:07)
Yes, because this field ⁓ can make or break people. ⁓ I talk about the pillars, the five pillars of sustainability for those that are receiving training from me within forensic evaluations. And the first one is building relationships. That's very important because everybody is, you could make or break your career in forensics through word of mouth.
Taylor Gilbert (43:33)
Yeah.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (43:34)
You can also build it through word of mouth. So networking is very key. The other one, the other pillar is learning.
Being able to retain information and not feel like, I've got it. I don't need anything more. No, because social work, as we know, is constantly evolving. Why? Because society is constantly evolving. So why not constantly learn within your specialty, within your population, on what you need to do better as a writer? Mastering your documentation is another one. That's a third pillar. And that pillar, it focuses on what we always
do in as therapists, clinicians, and social workers. We always got to make sure we have the most easiest template to get our work done the quickest. ⁓ build a strong documentation. ⁓
template or templates and that's based off of what training you got to have to you got to know what to put that's going to set your evaluations differently because for example I had wrote a 20 page paper for an individual and put in additional information regarding related to concierge case management because of that information they realized that's not going to support
the case because of how court was going actively. that if the court wasn't moving in the direction they were going, they could have used it. But because it was turning into the favor to boost it some more, they used the case management and reduce someone's bail from $1 million to $10,000.
Taylor Gilbert (45:14)
Can you explain that more? mean, I what? OK, so the concierge case management, I remember you saying is like you were you're doing you're doing case management, but it is in a consulting capacity. Like they're saying, hey, this person, they need support with these resources. OK, but how how could you frame that to get their bail down? Make make that connection for me.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (45:18)
Your documentation has this.
Yes.
Right.
So if we really look at the court system and you being in a forensic evaluator or forensic social worker that is in this shape is a forensic evaluator, you're on a multidisciplinary team as well as an interdisciplinary team. So you're working together with your attorney to get the best outcome that your client wants, which is the attorney's client.
Because your client is really the attorney and then it funnels through there So how do we how do we get that is by constantly talking about what is best practice and best outcomes? so you now you're consulting with an attorney, but also you do have leverage and Understanding what's available in the community that's going to best serve. What do people think like? my god No, you already do this on your day-to-day basis when you're creating a what a treatment plan
Taylor Gilbert (46:36)
Mm-hmm.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (46:37)
So you're just bringing it back to the court system to show them, hey, they don't need prison. Because if they go to prison, they're going to come back out and go through and still need the support either way. That's how I frame it is if they go to prison, they're still going to need the support. So why don't we give them an opportunity to try this now? And I mean, I do social determinants. I do whole person care, center care when I'm writing. So that way a judge can read it and say, OK,
Yeah, I think let's go ahead and work this plan out. And I'm also including individuals. I'm contacting these resources saying, hey, would you be open to supporting with ROI? Let's just go that way. Asking if they would like to be a part. And this has already been consulted with the client.
Would you like to, is this individual allowed me to provide a release of information? They are very interested in these kinds of services. What's a timeline? If they were to be released, what's the quickest timeline they can get in? Every time they're like, okay. I said, because this is gonna help them get out of custody. We really want them to have this support lined up because they do not deserve to go into prison and not be served with the resources that are already available for them that they didn't have an opportunity.
to even try. So once I frame it in that way, a lot of these places open up spots specifically for the clients.
Taylor Gilbert (48:05)
Hmm. And then
the judge sees like, OK, there's a ⁓ rehabilitative plan for this person. am OK with reducing this bail so that they can get out and kind of like start their lives. Wow. That's really impactful.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (48:09)
Because I put the dates and the times, Yes.
I think
that was my biggest case.
Taylor Gilbert (48:29)
That's really impactful. ⁓
The last thing I want to talk about in terms of forensics, the money. I think you have mentioned, you know, there is good money, but you want to be intentional about your intentions of getting into the work. Talk to us about the varying pay and how that looks.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (48:36)
Okay. Great.
Yes.
worry.
So when people get into forensics, they will be for, let's talk about this before. I talked about this with another forensic evaluator and she laughed because she said years ago when I was, when I was a bachelor's in forensics, in the jails, she was doing evaluations. So she's seen it from then in like the early 2000s. And she said, no one, no one would care. No one wanted to hear what she had to say about forensics. And she was like, no, this is an opportunity. Like you should get.
Nobody cared. But I think the realm of immigration evaluations has opened the door for people to say, because people are talking about it online, saying how much you can charge for them. Now, immigration evaluations can be funded through many different sources. It can be funded through the client themselves.
the client that needs the evaluation. It could be funded through an emergency fund or an organization that's funding the service, like someone that says, we have a grant for a certain amount of people to get immigration evaluations. So it's many different services, many different.
funding sources for that. So I think that's where people start to get their eyes open and say, wow, we can just be an evaluator and make that much money. Because for those evaluations, you could start at, $500 to $1,500. Some people charge $2,000 for an immigration evaluation. And there's five within those. that's in the, if someone's doing all five, they make that money.
however they want to make it. But for my specific, ⁓ not niche, but it is a niche. It's a population that I serve is corrections. Now, not everybody has to get in through corrections because again, even with mine, there's still 14 populations that you can serve within forensics. And the payee is different or the payer. Thank you.
Taylor Gilbert (50:56)
Yeah. The payer is different. OK.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (51:00)
The problem differs
Taylor Gilbert (51:00)
Yeah.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (51:02)
depending on what evaluation you're doing. So I want people to keep that in mind too because a lot of people get confused. Well, who pays me? Who pays me? It's really who's asking. It could be the lawyer. Right. Right.
Taylor Gilbert (51:14)
It could be the lawyer because the clients paying the lawyer. It could be the court if
you're doing what like a parent child or you talked about parenting evaluations. That would be the court paying you. Yeah, OK.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (51:28)
Yeah, yes. And even with those
evaluations, the public defense can pay you too. So there's so many, there's so many payers that could ⁓ give you what you're looking for. But even with that understanding, that if it's a department, there's a structure. Just hand down. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes, but they...
Taylor Gilbert (51:49)
Like this is what we pay per hour. Maybe it's, you know, 150. This is how many hours we'll give you. It could be less.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (51:57)
Yes, sometimes they have a larger spread, like they have a range of payments that you have to stay between when doing the work. And that, by that, I mean by hourly rates. So for me, I I start off with 10 hours for the rate that I want.
Taylor Gilbert (52:03)
Yeah.
Yeah, okay.
per evaluation.
Yeah.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (52:17)
Yes,
and you know personally I have the flat rate fee for a specific evaluation and it's not going to move like it's going to be that flat rate for this date. It's $435. Even then I was like oh my gosh that's a lot of money you know for something that can be done in two hours. I was so excited because our day-to-day we're not making that in a day. A lot of our social workers can't won't even see that for two days.
So I was very excited about that. Then when I was able to discover my rate, said, ⁓ and someone gave me that rate. They told me, are worth this. You are worth this because I was cheating myself when I first got it.
Taylor Gilbert (53:01)
from what you initially
said. Yeah.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (53:03)
Yes, it was someone
to say, no, Ty, we know you personally. And it took the people that I worked for to say, no, we know you personally. And this is how this person is charging within the realm. So you also need to charge that same price. I've seen personally, again, the flat rate is 435 up to the highest I've had was 3,500 for one evaluation.
Taylor Gilbert (53:29)
Yeah.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (53:31)
it ranges and most people say my god i know somebody like what that that's mileage again i was going back and forth to a client that didn't that lived two hours away three hours away ⁓ they paid me back for ⁓ reimburse me for shelter
Taylor Gilbert (53:36)
He
Housing. Yeah.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (53:53)
They reimbursed me for the hotel that I was in.
I was able to meet my son. it was a lot. They reimbursed me for food. So there's a lot that goes into when you are saying to someone like you are ready to do this work and they're going to give you the work.
Taylor Gilbert (54:09)
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like you're busy. I mean, how many evaluations do you have this week? Yeah.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (54:13)
seven
and two concierge case management clients. So it's, it's, it's, I'm very grateful to be here. You know, you see, you've seen the buildup, you know, I'm very grateful to be here. This is not a realm to just say, wow, she's making so much money. I can get in there. You need to understand these are real people's lives.
Taylor Gilbert (54:18)
Yeah.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (54:37)
that need your support and needs your ability to understand that they need to be seen as human first. That is the purpose. All these evaluations are trauma-informed evaluations. That is why they're choosing to lean on therapists.
like LPC, MFT, ⁓ PsyD, which PsyD is part of the psychology bracket, and then also ⁓ LPC and us as social workers. They're leaning on us because the psychology sector is booked and busy. I say this all the time. People feel like there's so many psychologists and psychiatrists and PsyDs, but there's not that many. If we really look at it, there's more therapists and clinicians than it is. ⁓
Taylor Gilbert (55:23)
Yeah.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (55:29)
us as therapists, which they are also therapists as well, but us as ⁓ those that aren't in the sector of psychology. So a lot of people are looking towards having a clinician, ⁓ all the levels that I just mentioned, provide evaluations that are sustainable in court.
Taylor Gilbert (55:49)
Mm-hmm, yeah.
Yeah, there's work to be had. There's work out there for us in this field. ⁓ Thanks for sharing that. I'm going to switch the topic a little bit because I feel like since I've known you, I've noticed you're pretty optimistic about social work and the things that we can do. And you have your ⁓ platform, Social Work Guru. And I'm just curious about
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (55:57)
Yes.
Taylor Gilbert (56:21)
you know, when you started to share content you were sharing, you know, broadly about social work. And I just want to know about, I don't know, just like your perspective of social work. And I think you have...
a positive outlook on it. think sometimes we can see online that people are really negative about social work and just saying like, you know, like, I really regret this degree and da da da da, you know, and obviously there's, there's a place for that in terms of, you know, the pay inequities specifically, but
I digress. I'm just curious about your, yeah, what prompted you to start sharing social work content online and why do you think that's important?
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (57:08)
started by an accident. It started by an accident. I was just so excited to be ⁓
in a role like a psych hospital as a director. I was so excited to the point where they don't know I still kept my badge. And I was so excited to the point where I kept it because I said I cannot believe at my age I'm a director of a psych hospital.
Taylor Gilbert (57:25)
Hahaha!
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (57:38)
I took a chance on myself. I was so nervous, didn't think they were going to hire me to be a manager. And for my director to suggest that I become the interim director, I was just so elated. I was, I couldn't believe it. Being in social work, I've always been hap- I've always been this type of person that's always been happy, smiling, wanting to serve, wanting to support people, wanting to encourage people.
showing who I am on TikTok, that's my day to day. So when people log on and they ask for, they book a call with me or a clarity call with me and they're nervous, I'm like, don't be nervous. Like me too. Like, I'm excited to meet you. And you know, just to hear back to me.
I reached out to you because you were down to earth. Somebody just told me this morning when I had a clarity call with them about whether or not they want to get into forensics, they said I'm inspiring. And I was like, what? You know, I just be myself and really just showcase how.
good social work can be. Now, understanding social work, when people want to leave, it's okay if people feel like this is not the space for me. Great. Please take it upon yourself and make the decision for yourself because if you stay in it, you're not going to be happy. You're not going to be because you've already made it up in your mind. But there's some people that are teeter tottering that just want answers, that just want some guidance, that just want some support. And I feel like there's a lot of social workers merging.
creating this new ⁓ wave of social work where it gives people hope and also the ability to see what's possible for them that if she can do it, I can do it too. Yes, you can. That's the type of thinking that I carry for myself is, and I didn't even have nobody to say, if she could do it, I could do it.
I didn't even have that. I just thought about it myself and said, well, I see someone doing that. I wonder if this is something that I can do as well. Well, I guess that is the same thing then. I'm about to say it out loud. Maybe it is the same thing. But it's not on the TV screen. It's not something that's bomb. No, because people have the understanding of what social work is. Taking kids, that's it.
Taylor Gilbert (59:45)
Hahaha!
It's not front and center.
Yeah.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (1:00:02)
People think we are just with child and family, but we're everywhere. There's like you had on your podcast, you have professors, you have people working in tech, you have people in sports. We can literally be in any space. It's just a matter of understanding what you can provide and how you can boost the spaces that you are in because you are unique as a social worker. We can do many different things. People tell us that we do too much, but I feel like we do just enough to get us through the door.
and set ourselves apart from everyone else at the table with respecting everyone else's face at the table as well. As long as we get the respect, we need to demonstrate that we too deserve respect, but that's how we carry ourselves and how we talk about the program. If we're talking so illy about the program,
then we are watering down the program. We're not uplifting the program. And why should anybody else respect us when within our own entity, we're struggling with respecting ourselves as a whole?
Taylor Gilbert (1:00:59)
Mmm.
Ooh. Yeah, that's a mic drop right there. Yes, yes. Thank you for sharing that. I appreciate your perspective and I think it's really uplifting and yeah, inspiring. So ⁓ if people want to work with you and all the things, like what kind of things do you do? What kind of support do you provide to social workers? Please tell us.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (1:01:14)
Thanks.
I am.
So right now
I do have a training that is six weeks followed by ⁓ additional months that are people say, no, it's free. ⁓ The additional months added to you because you want to make sure that people who want to get involved in forensics, I'm supporting you through that process, providing you the training that will get you started ⁓ and get you on your way to gaining your first client. ⁓ So after that, that you get six
of training. We talk about documentation, we talk about marketing, we talk about ⁓ every single thing that you would need to get up and running from the start. I had an individual that started and was following to the tee with, we weren't even done with the weeks and already landed two. ⁓
evaluation opportunities because they actually went out and did the work that we talked about together in a group. Right, very, very right. We've had individuals that are creating their own flyers and being excited about it because again, you need to be excited about what you're promoting. So if you don't feel excited about your flyer, then you're not going to want to promote it. So we're making sure that in the community chat, we go through schooling together. And then within the community chat, we are actively doing the work.
Taylor Gilbert (1:02:30)
That's awesome. That's exciting.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (1:02:53)
together encouraging each other, promoting each other. They still have access to their videos before. They still have access to the templates that they've requested. ⁓ And so just making sure that people feel a sense of community and forensics because I would love to have a forensics community for all clinicians who want to join in and just be supportive of each other in their learning, their growth and development. Another thing that I'm working on right now, I just want to
bid contracts, so I'm very excited about that. And it's also related to forensics. ⁓ So I'm building the foundational pieces of rebuilding and restructuring the foundational pieces of my private practice with the support of many different people. Because you can't do this work alone. There's no.
You need people to help with supporting the building of what you want. And that's either entities, that's either attorneys, there's all these people that play into your growth and success. So why not give them exactly what they're looking for so they can give you exactly what you need to sustain what you're giving them. ⁓ That plus I'm looking at my book. I'm coming out with workshops. I'm coming out with free webinars. Right.
Taylor Gilbert (1:04:09)
Yeah, you offer a lot of you offer a lot
of resources, workshops. Yeah, if people are interested, definitely reach out to Ty. Where can people find you?
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (1:04:12)
within forensics. Thanks.
You can find me on TikTok. Tickety-tock. Or you can find me on Instagram. It's not that active. But you can find me on TikTok at Social Work Guru. And that's exactly how it's spelled. And I'm always in my DMs as much as possible. just reach out to me. LinkedIn, Tireeka Watson. You will see me. And you will see me yapping about forensics.
Taylor Gilbert (1:04:37)
Yep, LinkedIn, LinkedIn, and I'll put.
That's amazing. Well, thank you so much for joining us. And thanks, everyone, for listening. We'll be back in two weeks.
TIREEKA WATSON LCSW (1:04:53)
Yes, of course. Thank you for having me.