33. Salary Series: The Journey to Making $224k in 2025 with Liz Rhea, LCSW

Taylor Gilbert (00:00)
Hello everyone, welcome back to the Social Work to Wealth podcast. I'm Taylor and today we're doing our second salary series episode. I am super excited for our guests today. Yeah, I, yes, I'm just, I personally am like fangirling. I'm like, yes, so excited. So today we have Liz Rhea with us. ⁓
and I'll let you introduce yourself to everyone.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (00:31)
Yeah.
Thanks for having me, Taylor. I'm excited to be here. ⁓ yeah, I'm Liz. I use she, pronouns. I am a licensed clinical social worker based in Atlanta, Georgia. ⁓ I own my own practice. ⁓ it's a solo practice, based in Decatur for anyone familiar with the Atlanta area. and work primarily with queer and trans folks, ⁓ religious trauma, complex trauma, things like that.
And then outside of my clinical work, also, it always feels weird to say this, but like I do technically create content on the internet. Yeah, it feels weird to say that. Yeah, yeah, it's just so, that is not what I, first of all, my path in life being. And I offer trainings and consultations and things like that for therapists and grad students and really value getting to,
Taylor Gilbert (01:09)
You're a content creator.
I agree. I agree with you. Yeah.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (01:30)
talk about all the things that like I didn't know when I was graduating and was like, how much money am I gonna make? Like, where do I get clients? Things like that. ⁓ And then I am also a founding organizer for a queer and trans centered mental health training organization based in Georgia. So I am also the marketing girly for that and help facilitate trainings through that as well.
Taylor Gilbert (01:54)
You do so many cool things.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (01:57)
I do, like the, I wear a lot of hats and I really like it.
Taylor Gilbert (02:01)
Yeah, and I feel like you are just a great example of how, I mean, this is like off topic. We're not talking about salaries right now yet, guys, but stay tuned. We will get to the income. Liz gots her numbers. So I just appreciate how ⁓ you have been able to diversify your income and just kind of like create this career that you seem to love.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (02:10)
Yeah.
I do, I love it. I really love it. And I feel really grateful. I feel like with social work and part of what drew me to social work was I liked that you get to wear a lot of different hats. I thought my career was going to be in like nonprofit work. ⁓ Particularly like I thought I was gonna have a career in like youth homelessness. ⁓ I love being, I love.
Taylor Gilbert (02:32)
I'm
Mm.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (02:57)
being kept on my toes. love like my days not looking the same. Like that really works for my brain. And then I figured out like, wait, I really love being a therapist. So I want to get to do this full time instead. But I like that I get to use my brain in a lot of different ways and really get to use a lot of different skill sets, which is fun for me.
Taylor Gilbert (03:13)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I would love to hear a little bit like going back to, I don't know, baby grad school student Liz and just how you made this or like how did private practice kind of come into your world?
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (03:35)
Sure. So I got my master's in social work in the height of the pandemic. I started in August 2020, August 2020, and graduated as a social worker in May of 2022. So, wild time to be in social work school. Yeah.
Taylor Gilbert (03:56)
Seriously?
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (03:58)
So I, my final year internship, I was working in queer and trans youth homelessness in Atlanta. and I was in an interesting place where I was both a case manager for part of the program, like as an intern and then, and also like a intern therapist for another part of the program. So I was wearing kind of two pretty different hats. and
through being able to work one-on-one and in group settings with folks, I was like, my gosh, I love this. This is like, it's really fucking cool to like, I was only doing it for like 10 months while, and still like, it was awesome to see like what was happening with clients and like building the trust and rapport. And so ⁓ when I was getting ready to graduate, I was like, well, so I think I need a job and I don't think.
therapists get jobs in traditional ways. ⁓ so, cause I was like on indeed and LinkedIn as one does and going, so no private practices post jobs there. ⁓ So I applied to some community mental health being like, cool, I can do that for a little while per usual. Did not hear back from them. Totally understand. I feel like that is such a like nonprofit understaffed overworked like
Taylor Gilbert (05:00)
Mm-hmm.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (05:20)
things just like slip through the cracks.
Taylor Gilbert (05:21)
Right. It's like
they need you. They like desperately need you, but for some reason they just can't get you because they don't have enough staff on their own to even process the application or interview.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (05:32)
Exactly. and so, which was, I was like, okay, whatever guys, that's fine. Right. Um, and so I, um, emailed a bunch of group practices. I was just like, hi, do you want to take on an associate? Um, like that's, and I got, I interviewed with seven different practices. got five job offers. Um, and then accepted one and started in June after graduating. Um,
Taylor Gilbert (05:36)
This is ironic.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (05:59)
was in group practice. I worked at two different ones for about two and a half years before starting my own practice.
Taylor Gilbert (06:06)
And were you fully licensed when you started your own practice?
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (06:11)
No, this is a question that I get all the time. People are so... ...crunt.
Taylor Gilbert (06:15)
I thought you weren't. Yes, I thought you weren't
and I was super excited to talk with you more about this. Yes, tell me about your thought process around that and yeah.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (06:21)
Yeah.
Yeah, sure. So in Georgia, social workers, once you meet certain requirements, i.e. you still have to be under supervision, so you still have to be operating under your supervisor's license, ⁓ Georgia is, I think, a little unique in that they differentiate between supervision and direction. And so your direction is the equivalent of an employer. Like they are the administrative oversight, they have to collect payment from clients and then pay you.
Right. So there who is typically paying you the like 60 40 split or whatever it is. Um, whereas your supervisor, my supervisor was never at associated with any of the practices I worked at. So I was always operating under their license clinically. Um, I knew I wanted to own my own practice. I like working for myself. I figured that was going to be great. Also financially I was like, I'm not, I don't, I don't want to be in group practice forever actually. Um,
Taylor Gilbert (07:20)
Right.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (07:25)
totally get that that works for a lot of people and I wanted to do my own thing. And so, ⁓ some extenuating circumstances happened and I was in a position where I was like, okay, well now is the time that I will be ⁓ starting my own practice. I knew that I legally could, cause in Georgia once you reach 2000 hours slash two years, whichever one comes later as a social worker.
than that final year while you were waiting to apply for clinical licensure, you can own your own practice. ⁓ You just have to still be under supervision and you have to make it really clear that you're an associate, you're under supervision, all that kind of stuff, right? So I was like, let's fucking go, let's do it. And so I started my, I will say I had some stuff established already because I was an independent contractor. So like I had an LLC already. I had like a business bank account, things like that. ⁓
Taylor Gilbert (08:06)
Yeah.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (08:22)
But I did start my own practice in like two weeks and just like went for it.
Taylor Gilbert (08:29)
That is really impressive. Like just bold move, go for it. Yeah. And I think it's, I'm trying.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (08:33)
Thank you.
It was very stressful. I don't
recommend it, but I did it.
Taylor Gilbert (08:43)
What was stressful about it?
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (08:47)
I was transiting, all of my clients moved with me, so I was transiting. Yeah, I had the option. ⁓ Anyone who's an associate, read your contract. Figure, read your contract before you sign it. Know what you're getting yourself into.
Taylor Gilbert (08:51)
that's cool.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm because yeah, because
they might not let you take your clients with you and I think the group practices that let you do that are awesome
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (09:11)
Yeah, or they might make you, or you might have a buyout clause in your contract where you have to pay a certain amount of session fees per client that is moving with you.
Taylor Gilbert (09:24)
Interesting. I've not heard that before.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (09:27)
Yeah, so like I did the math at one point if I had had a buyout clause, which neither contracts that I ever had at a group practice, I had a buyout clause. Shout out to them. ⁓ I would have had to, if all of my clients wanted to move with me and it was like five session fees worth per client, I would have had to pay like 30 grand to take my clients.
Taylor Gilbert (09:49)
So yeah, that's not happening.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (09:52)
So if you're signing a contract, read the contract, like thoroughly know what you're getting. And I'm not saying that you can't sign that contract. I'm saying make an informed decision about signing the contract, right? Yeah, so I was moving all my clients with me. I was actively looking for an office space. I did not have an office space. I'm in my lovely office now that me and my best friend rent together.
Taylor Gilbert (09:54)
⁓
Yeah.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (10:22)
I was like, hey team, I'm gonna be virtual. I don't know how long. ⁓ Try and stick it out with me. ⁓ I'm hoping in a couple weeks I will have an office. And so literally in between sessions, I'm like doing sessions in one part of our office. And then we're like carpet cleaning and painting and like getting everything put together. And so it was chaos. Yeah. So, but again, I'm here now.
Taylor Gilbert (10:42)
⁓ I see. Yeah, okay. Yeah.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (10:51)
I don't regret the decision once. Not at all.
Taylor Gilbert (10:53)
Yeah,
why is that? Why do you why do you love it?
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (10:58)
I love getting to work for myself. I feel like I have all the benefits of group practice with none of the bullshit of group practice because my two best friends are also therapists and so we all rent space together. And so we operate like a little collective. We like, it's fantastic, but we, it's individual people. Like the money is not tied together. ⁓
Taylor Gilbert (11:17)
That's so cute.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (11:26)
And I make so much more fucking money.
Taylor Gilbert (11:29)
Yeeeessss
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (11:31)
And I do what I want.
want to offer trainings. I can offer trainings. I want to start a consultation group.
Taylor Gilbert (11:39)
You want to take a week off?
You could do that. Like, you're the boss.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (11:44)
Yeah, I never have
to ask someone for time off to go to a doctor's appointment ever again.
Taylor Gilbert (11:52)
my gosh. That... That you're, you know, it's... This isn't about me, this is about you, but my... I'm ⁓ in life transition personally, and I'm like searching for jobs, and... But then there's this other part of me where I'm like, maybe I should just do my own thing. I'm not a therapist. I would be a money coach. ⁓
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (12:04)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Taylor Gilbert (12:16)
So I don't know, just hearing you say what you do about like, I don't have to ask people for time off. I don't have to ask people for, know, if I didn't want to go to doctor's appointment, if I want to do this, this like, those are the things that I'm grappling with right now. Cause yeah, it's so nice to just, we're adults. It's so weird that we have to ask for those things in our careers, you know, or jobs or whatever.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (12:36)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. And like, I don't, I don't regret being in group practice. I will say that. Like, I think that was really helpful for me. I think I learned a lot. I think there was so much value in having people that I could immediately consult with or be like, this thing happened. Like, I don't know what I'm doing. Right? Like, I think that was actually really important. And I like, I like dealing with my own money.
Taylor Gilbert (13:05)
Yeah, absolutely. Do you feel like you could have? Well, do you know if there are other states that have kind of like similar rules in terms of ⁓ like associates opening up their own practices, but they obviously need to like have a, you know, fully licensed supervisor?
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (13:26)
I know Texas does, at least for professional counselors, because I have a couple of friends who are ⁓ professional counselors in Texas. ⁓ I'm pretty sure Pennsylvania does. ⁓ Yeah, there are a couple of states. You, I think.
Taylor Gilbert (13:28)
Mm.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (13:46)
have to be able to like kind of understand the legal jargon because it's not written in a way that's easy to understand. ⁓ Or pro tip, post anonymously in a local Facebook group and ask people what their interpretation of it is. It might be hell on earth and also you might get some information.
Taylor Gilbert (14:06)
Mm-hmm like if if people want to like start their own thing kind of sooner. Yeah, what are your what are your feelings about? I saw this video recently worth the social worker where it's like again a social worker is trying to like police other social workers, which Really bugs me in in some instances, but she was like if you are graduating You should not open up your own private practice ⁓
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (14:10)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Taylor Gilbert (14:34)
You should work at community mental health. Like you need experience. You need to work somewhere else, you know, and faith and I faith.
specifically moved to Switzerland and like she didn't have really an option after grad school to do that so she did open up her own private practice and everyone was like just I don't know people are just negative about new grads opening up private practices right after grad school and I know that's not possible for other for many people just because of state laws and things but I'm just curious your perspective on that.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (15:10)
Yeah, I think I have a couple different opinions about that. think sometimes there are like valid, like, hey, does everyone know what they're doing? Like, do you, do you understand the laws? Like, are you going to be able to be compliant? Cause grad school doesn't teach us how to do that. Right. Like so fair. ⁓ my, my question when therapists are like new grads need to work in community and mental health is, is that what you did?
Taylor Gilbert (15:22)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (15:38)
And you just think that is the path that everyone is supposed to do because that is the path that you had to take. ⁓
Taylor Gilbert (15:44)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (15:49)
Because I, like, and here's the thing, I tried to work in community mental health. I like literally applied for it.
Taylor Gilbert (15:59)
Yeah.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (16:00)
And so what was I supposed to do? Just not have a job? Or go with the group practice that wanted to hire me and offered me a solid level of support and find a supervisor?
Taylor Gilbert (16:04)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (16:12)
Like I just think this whole like you have to pay your dues is...
Taylor Gilbert (16:16)
Yes, that's exactly
the tone. That was exactly the tone.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (16:22)
Right. And it's like, okay, I'm, I am so sorry that you felt like you didn't have an option or maybe you didn't have an option. And also, why do you want it to be worse for new grads?
Taylor Gilbert (16:34)
Right.
Right. And I personally, I worked in community mental health and I'm like, I don't want anyone to have to do that. Really. I mean, like I recognize that that's just like how our system right now is set up and that's how people access services or whatever, but.
It was so hard. after that, mean, I didn't go and I didn't come out of grad school like wanting to be a therapist. I wanted to be a medical social worker. And that was the, that was the medical hospitals, hospices. They weren't getting back to me. The community mental health agency was the one that was like, yeah, we'll give you, we'll give you a job. like, ⁓ I haven't done therapy. I've never done therapy in my grads program. They're like,
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (17:03)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Taylor Gilbert (17:21)
It's
fine. We'll teach you. So I think that also kind of contributed to me just struggling. mean, I enjoyed it, but also, yeah. So, but it was super hard and honestly it was, it was traumatizing. And it's one of those experiences where I'm like, I, I don't know if I ever want to do therapy again, because that was just so hard. And I know that it's not always, it doesn't have to be like that, but
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (17:31)
It's not what you wanted to do.
Yeah.
Taylor Gilbert (17:49)
I mean, it's like I was getting paid $40,000, but that was six years ago, eight years ago. Whoa. and yeah, the productivity requirements and like, it's like, yeah, anyways, that's
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (18:08)
Yeah. And
like, I, I see a lot of people take the community mental health route and I don't think there's any, I don't think that's wrong. Right? Like I think that's actually really important to be like therapists who take the community mental health route. Cool. Like that, that's great. I'm, I hope that you feel like you are making that choice for yourself and not feeling like you have to do this. Right. My whole point is that therapists don't have to do it.
Like social workers don't have to do it ⁓ unless you have weird state laws, which I know some states do that don't set you up for a ton of success there. ⁓ And also I think community mental health needs like a pretty significant overhaul.
Taylor Gilbert (18:38)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes, absolutely. I agree. So I'm curious. Let's start with let's talk salaries now and first salary at a grad school or you know what what numbers you got for us.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (18:55)
Yeah.
Yeah. So I had an interesting, um, practicum experience. My last semester of grad school, they hired me on. Um, and so instead of doing the like 20 hours a week, I was doing like 30 hours. Um, and so I was paid $15 an hour. They offered to keep me on as a case manager post-grad. And I think paying me somewhere between 15 and $20 an hour. And I was like, no, thank you. Thank you so much.
Taylor Gilbert (19:38)
Hehehehehe
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (19:39)
Um,
y'all go with God on that one. I'm not doing that actually. And so the first group practice that I was at, um, in Georgia, it is really common to be an independent contractor. So you're a 1099. Um, most group practices, you are not a W-2 in this state. Um, and so I had a 70-30 split. Um, so I was making seven, I was getting paid 70 % of everything I built, which is pretty high.
Taylor Gilbert (20:06)
Wow,
I was gonna say that's higher than I've ever heard.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (20:10)
Yes. Yes. It was the highest offer I got and like they, I think, I think they were genuinely trying to like be like a good group practice and like take care of their clinicians and things like that. I worked there that first year was June to December. So I was working for six months post grad. Um, my business, like as a 1099, I got paid
Taylor Gilbert (20:20)
like progressive, yeah.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (20:41)
$26,106 over those six months.
And so ⁓ my LLC is an S-corp and so I'm a W-2 employee of myself, of my business. And so my W-2 for that year was $18,662.
Taylor Gilbert (21:01)
Wow, that was only two years ago?
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (21:05)
It was 2022. Yep. Yep. yeah, that was like...
Taylor Gilbert (21:06)
Oh, it's 222. Oh, yeah, yeah, okay.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (21:13)
three-ish thousand dollars a month, two to three thousand something like that for six months. Yeah, it's tight. It was tight. In 2023, I worked at the first group practice for like three months and then another group practice for the rest of the year. The second group practice,
Taylor Gilbert (21:19)
Yeah, that's tight. Yeah.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (21:38)
It is tough to explain the financial situation because there were a lot of different aspects that were going on. It wasn't a traditional split. And so I don't know actually what percentage of my billing I was getting paid because we had a different agreement. I was still a 1099 for the full year. And in that year, my business got paid a little over $110,000.
Taylor Gilbert (22:06)
Wow. Okay.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (22:08)
Yeah.
And so my W-2 for that year was around $43,000.
Taylor Gilbert (22:14)
Mm-hmm. Okay. But with your, I mean, we don't got to go into huge details about the S-Corp, but like you still, you still, paid yourself as a W240, the 40, but you still got other income from like the rest of the pot because of the S-Corp kind of setup, right?
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (22:16)
So.
Yeah, well, and I think
$43,000 is what I got paid, things like health insurance are a business expense, things like my trainings, right? I wasn't paying out of pocket for a lot of things. And so if you were looking at it from more like a total compensation package, that 43 is probably more like 70 to 80.
Taylor Gilbert (22:47)
Yeah.
Okay.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (23:04)
because of all the things that I don't have to pay for that my business is paying for on my behalf. ⁓
Taylor Gilbert (23:09)
Mm hmm. Yeah, that's a nice jump
from your first year to why was why do you why was it such a big
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (23:17)
I think there's a couple things. One, I had a full caseload the whole year as opposed to building my caseload. Two, my rate increased. When I moved group practices, my rate went from 135 to 150 and that helped a solid amount. I was on social media at that point, I was on TikTok, but I wasn't really doing
Taylor Gilbert (23:37)
Absolutely.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (23:49)
any like I wasn't really making I wasn't making money from social media I wasn't I didn't really have any additional streams of income at that point so it was just therapy and also I see a lot of clients yeah
Taylor Gilbert (23:59)
Wow.
Yeah,
yeah, definitely. Okay, so that's 2023, full year. Okay, we crossed 100k mark. What's next?
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (24:06)
Yep. Yep. Yep.
So 2024, the group practice that I was at, we switched to W2. And so I worked there from January to August. And then I was in my own practice from August to December. At the group practice, I was also paid for some like admin work and oversight stuff. And so,
For January to August, my W-2 from that group practice was a little over $65,000. And then my, for my business, my business made $62,000 between August and December.
Taylor Gilbert (24:54)
What? Wait.
What, because there's no split, it's just all coming to you, essentially. And you, did you, was your first rate once you opened up your own thing? Were you, you were charging 150?
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (25:07)
Mm-hmm.
150 for individuals, 175 for couples and partners.
Taylor Gilbert (25:19)
That is wild. Like you mean the same amount in what? Five months, four months?
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (25:24)
Four months. Yeah, four or
five. Yeah, something like that. Here's what I will say is that I made, I did not, was not able to pay myself a lot because I had so many more business expenses because I had to like pay a security deposit and you know, all those kind of startup-y things. So I think I only paid, I think my W-2 for that year was about 20,000.
Taylor Gilbert (25:39)
Like, startup. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (25:50)
or for the, so like in total my salary for the year was about $85,000.
Taylor Gilbert (25:56)
Yeah, OK. Yeah, I think that's that's I think many people hearing that would be like, I would love to make eighty five thousand dollars, eighty thousand dollars. Like, that sounds great. Yeah. OK. Twenty twenty five. OK.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (25:58)
Which was fine.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay. ⁓ Buckle in. my whole practice for the whole year, right? I had a couple different streams of income. So therapy, which was about 75 % of my income for the year. Trainings and consultation, which I actually have like the breakdown of this so I can reference it specifically. ⁓
trainings and consultation, was about 10 % of my income. Social media was about 5%. My Patreon was about 5 % and then merch was like 1 % of my income. My business in 2025 made $224,000.
Taylor Gilbert (27:08)
wish y'all could see my face right now because... What?! Did you say 224?
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (27:12)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Taylor Gilbert (27:19)
Okay.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (27:19)
Yeah,
and my salary for the year was $100,000.
Taylor Gilbert (27:25)
wow. Okay. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (27:29)
And I can give a breakdown of like where that income came from. And then I have
how much I've made in 2026 thus far. I, so with a hundred thousand dollars, like I'm paying myself, like when you're an S-corp, you're paying yourself the same amount every month. ⁓ And so, cause you're, you're giving yourself a salary, right? And then.
On top of that, you can give yourself distributions or kind of bonuses, things like that, which I mostly just rely on my accountant for a lot of guidance on this. This is not tax advice or like, you know, things like that. And so typically I pay myself like what I send to my personal account about between seven and $8,000 a month, like take home.
Taylor Gilbert (28:07)
Right.
That is amazing.
Wow. about $8,000 a month is take home $96k. That hits the bank account, which is amazing because that's after all the expenses. That is incredible.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (28:38)
Yeah. Yes.
Yeah. So my expenses in 2025 were a little over 50 grand. So I think my like non-expenses and like post-expenses pre-tax, I will say, was like 170. And then the rest of that is just my salary, any bonuses that I give myself.
I do have a retirement account that I put money into and like a business savings account. Yes. My accountant called me and was like, Hey, hey, retirement. And I was like, okay, if you say so, fine. Um, yeah, shout out to her. She's great. Um, and then, um, yeah, like business savings and taxes and things like that. Um, so in
Taylor Gilbert (29:10)
Yes, girl. Yes. Yes.
I love your account.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (29:35)
2025, I made, this is post credit card fees. Like this is just like raw numbers as opposed to like what I'm submitting to my account that like 224,000 is like pre credit card fees, cause it comes out as like expenses or whatever. But I made $165,000 from therapy. So direct client interactions, trainings and consultations. I made a little over $22,000.
Social media, I made almost $14,000.
Patreon was a little over nine grand and merch was a little over three or almost three grand
Taylor Gilbert (30:21)
Okay, so for the therapy 165k that you made for Just Therapy, how many clients are you seeing per week?
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (30:28)
Yeah.
So I would say that I'm probably doing between like around 27 clinical hours a week. I say it that way because 27 to 30, because I do offer like longer sessions. Like I have clients every week that I'll see for like 90 minute sessions or things like that. So even though it's one session on my calendar, it's actually kind of like two sessions or two clinical hours.
Taylor Gilbert (31:00)
Yeah.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (31:01)
So yeah, I would say between 27 and 30 clinical hours a week.
Taylor Gilbert (31:05)
And what's your like average kind of caseload number?
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (31:12)
So right now, I think I have about, in total, 50 people on my caseload. A lot of folks I've been working with for a while, and so I see them every three to four weeks for some maintenance stuff. And most of my clients, because I'm 100 % out of network provider, I see them every other week. We don't start out at weekly. I only have maybe four or five clients that I see weekly.
Taylor Gilbert (31:18)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Got it.
Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm curious about your, Faith and I did an episode a little bit ago about like insurance versus private pay. And again, you know, the, some of the therapy conversations are like, if you don't take insurance, you're not accessible and you're not a social worker.
Tell me your feelings in your approach to kind of structuring your practice in the way that you have.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (32:13)
Yep. ⁓ so I offer, I don't do sliding scale. offer reduced fees. I don't like the term sliding scale because it is traditionally associated with, ⁓ someone having to prove their income to you and you getting to play judge jury and executioner about what they can afford for therapy. And I don't play that game. I say, what works for you. Let's talk about it. Let's have a candid conversation. ⁓ so 30 % of my caseload has a reduced fee.
Taylor Gilbert (32:32)
you
you
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (32:43)
Um,
that is as low as $30. Um, or as I think my highest like reduced fee is like 120. Um, so part of the way that I've structured it is that I have two slots on my caseload. I'm a little loosey goosey about this because I do value accessibility and like I make a solid amount of money where I can be more flexible. Like the way that my business is set up because I have multiple streams of income, I can be like,
Taylor Gilbert (32:47)
Wow.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (33:13)
Yeah, you lost your job and now we need to reduce to like $20 until you find another job. Fine. We can do that. Right. ⁓ and so I have at least two slots on my caseload that are pay what you want. Has to be more than $5. Other than that, I don't care. They name their rate. and then I would say most of my clients on sliding scale are in the like, I would say probably averaging around.
Taylor Gilbert (33:19)
Mm-hmm.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (33:43)
$70 a session.
Taylor Gilbert (33:46)
Okay. What's your current, what's your current hourly rate? I know we were, I know we're like still in the 20, 25 kind of, yeah, but.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (33:54)
Yeah,
in 2025 it was 150 and then 175 for partners. haven't raised my rates in a while. I raised my rates at the beginning of this year for new clients only. I did not raise them for current clients. And so now I'm 170 for individual and 185 for partners and couples, which I'm an LCSW for the area that I'm in.
Taylor Gilbert (33:58)
Okay.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (34:22)
170 is pretty middle of the road for a fully licensed person. A lot of fully licensed people in the area are charging 200.
Taylor Gilbert (34:29)
Wow, okay, okay. I really, it's so cool to just hear how you are trying to make this work accessible because I think sometimes people think insurance is the only way to do that, but clearly, you know, being able to, even aside from your other streams of income, I mean, you were able to make $165,000 on Just Therapy alone.
charging the rate that you were privately. And I think even that can, could still give you, I mean, you know, everyone's personal finance circumstances are different caveat, caveat, right? But like you being able to charge 150, 170 allows you to say, Hey, 5 % or, know, two coins on my caseload, you can pay me whatever you want. 30 % of these people, 15 % like
reduce fee. That's amazing. ⁓
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (35:29)
Yep. Yeah, I like the way that I've structured it. I haven't had really a lot of issues with it. ⁓ And it's kind of how a lot of my colleagues structure it as well, I think. And I'm in Georgia. I am working with trans clients in the South. They don't want shit sent to insurance.
Taylor Gilbert (35:46)
Mm.
Yeah, that's such a good point.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (35:51)
Like
I think we are, there are pros and cons, right? I think insurance increases accessibility in some ways. And at the first group practice I was at, was able to do, I was able to take some insurances through like supervisory billing, ⁓ which is when you bill under someone else for the insurance. It's kind of like a nurse billing under a doctor. ⁓
And so, and with that, I had multiple clients who were like, cool, can I use my insurance? And I was like, sure, let's run your benefits. And it's like, hey, you have a high deductible plan. So that means you have to pay me the contracted rate. So can you pay me 110? And I'd be like, no, I thought I was going to do my copay of 30. And I'm like, okay, so now we need to talk about how you have to sign an out, like an insurance waiver.
Taylor Gilbert (36:31)
you
Yeah.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (36:46)
in order for me to give you sliding scale because there's no way in hell you're going to meet your deductible for this year.
Taylor Gilbert (36:46)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, right. Right, your deductible is $3,000, $5,000, $7,000, you're not gonna be able to pay me a copay. Mm-hmm.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (37:01)
Mm-hmm.
Correct.
Yeah, so I think it is a personal choice. I also think I am in an area, like I have the privilege of being in an area where self-pay is the norm. In Atlanta, self-pay is the norm. I will say though, I'm licensed in.
I'm like, I'm, I have a full license. have an LCSW in Maine, and then I have three telehealth licenses, Florida, South Carolina, and Delaware. And I have gotten inquiries from all but Delaware and haven't had any issues with people being willing to pay my rate.
Taylor Gilbert (37:42)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think also what's important here and seems like you you do really well is just being able to have the money conversation being comfortable with the money conversation with your clients because if you know, like you're saying, okay, I'm offerings reduce rate like you need to be able to
have that money conversation with your clients, you know? And if you're uncomfortable with it, then how can we make our clients comfortable with it, you know? So how did you get comfortable with this conversation?
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (38:09)
Yep.
It was so, it's so, I was so anxious. I was like, hi.
rated I start my first rate out of grad school. I'm so anxious. My first rate out of grad school was 110.
And I was like, are you sure you're okay paying me 110? Like, are you sure? Like, I was so anxious. And so I think feeling anxious about it is totally normal. I also think, are you having money conversations in your regular life?
Taylor Gilbert (38:56)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (38:58)
Are you talking to your friends about
money? Are you talking to partners about money? Like how do you engage in money conversations in your day to day life? Because that was something that like, I also had to grow in, in terms of like the way that I was talking about money in my day to day life and be like talking about debt, talking about like all these types of things, right? And so I think that helped in terms of like talking with clients too. And also you're just gonna be awkward. You're gonna be awkward and that's okay.
Taylor Gilbert (39:20)
Right.
Yeah,
yeah. And the comfortability comes with the practice, the repetition. And also, I feel like that kind of, you know, validation from other people where it's like, yeah, I'll pay you that. It's like, ⁓ you will? Okay, awesome. You know, if that happens, like more and more, it's like, okay, yes, this is you're providing a service and people have to pay you for the service because that's just how we how we live right now.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (39:57)
Also, my two tips about this are anytime someone reaches out to me when I'm taking new clients, in my response back about setting up a phone consult, I say like, my availability is really limited. I only have daytime availability and my rate is 170. Let me know if you have any questions. So from the jump, I'm naming my availability and money, which can be two difficult conversations to have. And then on the phone consult, I used to be like,
Hey, my read is this, like, does that work for you?
Instead, I say, hey, I wanted to make sure you saw my rate is 170. Do you have any questions about that? And that simple shift was really helpful.
Taylor Gilbert (40:34)
Mmm.
I love that. I love that. Okay. So that's amazing. I'm still like, wow, you made $224,000 a share. That's amazing. Um, trainings, consults, how, when did you, I guess, did you start doing some trainings, consults in 2024 at the end of that? Or was it 2025? Was that
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (40:48)
I'm
So I started doing trainings through my own practice in 2025. I had done like through the training organization that I'm a founding organizer of, I had done like two trainings through them or something like that. Cause I can kind of do them whenever I want. It's like a benefit. So yeah, in 2025.
Taylor Gilbert (41:07)
Okay.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (41:26)
I started doing trainings. am a huge, I like to fly the plane as I build it. I really have the like, how hard can it be Jean in me? Like it is, she's a strong one. ⁓ And so I started with a marketing training, like just say, people were really interested in the fact that I had grown a TikTok platform. I was starting to grow an Instagram platform. What, what worked for me? And
Taylor Gilbert (41:36)
Yeah. Yeah.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (41:55)
Um, I did it over zoom. I it's called let's talk marketing. I do one every like three months now, um, and updated as I go. Um, and I charged between 30 and $60 for it.
Taylor Gilbert (42:11)
Awesome.
And you just, you got to put yourself out there. Like if you want to, if you, if you want to do these things, trainings, like we all have to do it for the first time and even fifth time, 10th time still can get nervous. But yeah, I love that. And then your consultations, that's other therapists paying you for support. Okay.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (42:18)
Yeah, yes. Yep.
Absolutely.
Yes. Yeah.
Primarily with, ⁓ like private practice and marketing. And then I do run every other month, ⁓ group consult, ⁓ for therapists. It's drop in. ⁓ it's a lot more financially accessible for folks, I think, than, ⁓ like one-on-one consultation, cause it's just, it's cheaper. ⁓ and so, ⁓ and it's capped at 15 people and we just kind of chat about.
whatever questions people, I'm in the hot seat for an hour and a half and people get to ask questions and we get to brainstorm. And it's really fun.
Taylor Gilbert (43:07)
Yeah, that's cool. What are your really quick, I don't know, go to marketing tips, I guess. Like, I think, you know, social media is such a big part of like us as, yeah, business owners and things, you know, and of course not everyone needs to like grow their Instagram to 50,000 followers and whatever. But, yeah, what are, what are some things you typically recommend?
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (43:22)
Yeah. ⁓
Yeah.
if you're going to do social media, commit to it for a period of time, like give it like a solid, like three months, show up, post consistently, get rid of your weird Canva template that you use sporadically. Like it's not helping you. It's not doing any favors. ⁓ and also.
If you are trying to have an account that is exclusively psychoeducational, it needs to be really fucking good. Otherwise you're just putting additional noise out there and you're not going to stand out to folks as to why they want to work with you. Also be a human. Being a human would be cool.
Taylor Gilbert (44:15)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (44:18)
Like I, when I was starting social media, I decided if I'm gonna have to dance, I can't do it. If I'm, I cannot. ⁓ And if I'm gonna have to pretend to be someone that I'm not, I can't do that.
Taylor Gilbert (44:25)
Yeah, I feel same. Same.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
That's helpful. Yes. Take Liz's training. She's crushing it. I love your authenticity. And I think, yeah, that's, that's one of the reasons why Faith and I wanted you to come on the podcast because of your, know, she shares salary transparency, income things on her page. And it's, yeah, just really inspiring. When you say social media, you made $14,000. What is that from?
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (44:41)
Thanks.
Yeah. So I have a brand deal. ⁓ so that is most of that, is I have, yeah, I have one brand deal right now. ⁓ and it's continued, like we've continued to reassign a contract. it's with the EHR platform that I use, ⁓ and love Sessions Health. Shout out to them. If anyone needs a EHR platform, love them. so most of that is from the brand deal. Some of it, the rest of it is from, ⁓
Taylor Gilbert (45:21)
Yes!
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (45:33)
TikTok Creator Fund. ⁓ However, that has changed significantly since ⁓ it was acquired by a US-based company and the payout is wildly low now.
Taylor Gilbert (45:47)
Yeah, okay. That's awesome. Congratulations. That's so exciting. It's like, yeah. Okay, Patreon nine grand. Awesome. And then 2026, where we are in, I guess, month two.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (45:49)
So, but yeah, so most of it's from a brand deal.
Mm-hmm. Thank you. Thanks.
So as of yesterday when I was calculating these numbers, my business has made almost $42,000.
Taylor Gilbert (46:14)
Wow.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (46:15)
Um,
yeah. So 25K of that is from therapy clients. 8,000 is from trainings and consultations. Um, 2,100 is from my Patreon. 6,000 is from social media and 400 is from Merch.
Taylor Gilbert (46:33)
Awesome. Wow, you're crushing it.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (46:35)
Mm-hmm.
Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that.
Also, I work a lot. Like I want to be clear about that, right? Like I am not someone who is here being like, I have, I don't, I work 10 hours a week and I make, and that's great if people can do that. That's not me. I don't have children. I don't have a lot of like other obligations in the same way that would perhaps take some of my capacity. I am married, I have a dog.
Taylor Gilbert (46:45)
Good.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (47:06)
I live my life deeply in community, right? And also, I can work a solid amount and do work a lot. ⁓ And that has made sense for me because of some financial goals like paying off some debt that me and my spouse have really prioritized.
Taylor Gilbert (47:21)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah. Thank you for pointing that out because, don't want to come across being like, yeah, I work 15 hours a week and I make $224,000. Yeah, yeah. And that's not what everyone wants. And that's OK. But yeah, it's yeah. Yeah, that's that's helpful. I'm.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (47:37)
No, I work like 50 hours a week, probably.
No! Absolutely.
Taylor Gilbert (47:52)
I guess last question, I can't believe our time is like almost up, why is it important for you to share?
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (47:55)
Sure. Yeah.
Taylor Gilbert (48:03)
your salary, your income, things like that. Like I think that's what I was kind of getting to earlier was that's why me and Faith wanted to bring you on because we just really appreciated your transparency and that's something that's important to us too. So why do you think it's important for you to share that and for us to be having those conversations?
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (48:23)
I think there are three things that come to mind right off the bat. One, when I was in grad school, I had no idea what this was gonna look like. And I really thought I was gonna be making $30,000 for the rest of my life. And I was okay with that. And also I was like, this is gonna be tough. So I didn't know what was possible. Two, because there are some really wonderful group practices that are doing.
Taylor Gilbert (48:39)
Hmm.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (48:53)
that are really trying to do right by their clinicians and trying to do, yeah, like do right by their clinicians. I think is the best way to phrase that. And then there are some that are exploitative and I think people need access to transparency around salary, around fee splits, around things like that so they can make informed decisions. And three, I think it is just important to talk about what private practice looks like and to be anti gatekeeping.
because this field is so gatekeeping in a really weird way that is difficult for me to understand.
Taylor Gilbert (49:21)
Yes.
Mm-hmm, absolutely. Yeah, and I think some of this, like, I mean, there's, you know, there's a lot of reasons why it's, uncomfortable for us humans to, like, you know, I guess maybe not humans, US, I'll specify, to talk about money. But also, I think for me, there's been this ⁓ conversation around professionalism, you know, and like,
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (49:43)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Taylor Gilbert (49:55)
talking about money, talking about salary, that's not professional, you know? And I have this article, I'll put it in the show notes, but it's just like, professionalism is white supremacy culture. Like that's where this is rooted from, right? And so, yeah.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (50:12)
Yes!
Taylor Gilbert (50:18)
We're trying to fight, we're still trying to fight that. So it is really important for us to have these conversations so that we can advocate for ourselves. We can make informed decisions, you know? And we can have goals and aspirations and dreams of like what our lives, what we want our lives to look like.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (50:36)
Yeah, you get to be a social worker and you get to also want to make money. Those are not mutually exclusive.
Taylor Gilbert (50:41)
Yes.
Yes. That's just essentially like the tagline for Social Work 12.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (50:48)
Yep.
Yep.
Taylor Gilbert (50:51)
Awesome. Thank you so much Liz. was...
Very insightful. love it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your transparency. I'm sure everyone listening is also super grateful. Also I will mention to people listening, um, I haven't talked about this in a while, but I do. I am still collecting social work salaries. So I have about, I just updated it yesterday. have about 1500, um, salaries I've been collecting on my blog for over two years, just so people can, you know, be a little bit more informed about what's out
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (50:57)
Yeah.
Taylor Gilbert (51:25)
So I'll also put that link in the show notes. Check it out. Very insightful. ⁓ And I think one thing about that, the salaries that I've been collecting and just talking to you is like we can be financially successful as social workers. know, it's like there is a huge range obviously of salaries and there are lots of companies who are still paying shit, which is unacceptable. ⁓ And
Like both things can be true, there are poor salaries, but there are also social workers out there that are making good money. yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tell people where they can find you.
Liz Rhea, LCSW (she/her) (52:01)
Yeah. Yeah, thank you for having me, Taylor. This was lovely.
So you can find me on TikTok and Instagram, Liz Rhea Therapy is my handle on both of those. And both of those have like my website linked there and things like that for anyone interested in trainings or additional offerings.
Taylor Gilbert (52:25)
Yes, yes. We'll put all her links in the show notes. Check out her consults, trainings, all the things. ⁓ Yeah. All right, everyone. Thanks for listening and we'll be back in two weeks.