39. From $25K in Debt to Financial Therapist with LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW

Taylor Gilbert (00:00)
Hello everyone, welcome back to the Social Work to Wealth podcast. Hello wealthy social workers. I'm like trying that out.
I don't know. I'm wearing my wealthy social worker shirt that I made. If anyone's curious, I'll put the link in the show notes. You know, I just wanted something like fun to like wear out. I wore it on a cruise last year and I got so many compliments on it and people stopping me like, ⁓ I'm a social worker. Like, that's amazing. I love that idea of wealthy social worker. Like, you know, all the things, all the things that we talk about in the podcast. So anyways, if you want a cool shirt, I'll put the link in the show notes. It's comfy.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (00:11)
Ooh.
Taylor Gilbert (00:37)
All the things. So ⁓ today I have Laquisha Clemens, LCSW, financial therapist, baddie, all the things.
And we're just going to be talking today about like what it looks like for a therapist. So Jor goes to thrive financially, professionally, personally. She wrote a book with other therapists that we're going to chat about. so yeah, I'm super excited to have you here. Thank you for joining me.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (01:16)
Thank you. I'm super excited to be here. So a lot of people don't know, but we've known each other now for some time now. And I'm just super proud of Taylor and everything that she's accomplished and what she's been doing and the impact that she's making in the social work world.
Taylor Gilbert (01:35)
⁓ I didn't I didn't pay
her to say this. I did not pay her to say this. I know we met. We met at Fincon. It was Fincon the first time.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (01:39)
He said, you did it, you did it. But that's just.
No, I think we did one of those meet up, meet at online networking ⁓ and then at the FTA conference we ended up connecting, connecting. And then I think we were just, we've been just talking since. Yeah.
Taylor Gilbert (01:55)
⁓ huh.
Okay. Yeah, yeah, it has been a couple of years. I know you've
seen the growth of social work to wealth. It's really, it's really cool. It was just the blog. Well, anyways, we're not here to talk about me. We're here to talk about you. tell everyone. Also, thank you for your compliments and I appreciate that. ⁓
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (02:12)
Yes, because it was the blog. was just, you were blogging.
Thanks.
Taylor Gilbert (02:30)
Tell everyone about you and what you do. Yeah.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (02:33)
Yeah. Yes. So I am an LCSW, licensed clinical social worker. I'm based in Connecticut. I'm a financial therapist. I run a group financial therapy practice where we help people understand how their emotions and behavior impact them reaching their financial goals. ⁓ Money and emotions is just something I'm...
really, really ⁓ connected with and passionate about, but also helping people to get to where they want to be when it comes to their money. And besides me running a group practice, also... ⁓
help in the public defender's office as a social worker, so I do that too. So I wear a lot of different hats, and I also do adjunct teaching. But like I wear all these hats because I love them. I do right now.
I'm doing these things because I love it. absolutely love it. ⁓ Like waking, getting up every day to do some of the things I'm doing now, it does get hard sometimes, but like I'm truly like passionate about the things that I'm doing. So, yeah.
Taylor Gilbert (03:41)
Yeah.
Yeah,
yeah, you are doing a lot of things. And how many hours do you work at your public defender job?
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (03:58)
I work for them about 35 hours a week.
Taylor Gilbert (04:02)
Okay, and then how many clients do you even see clients anymore? If you have a group practice, you don't see. Okay, okay, because I was just about to say like, how are you fitting this all in?
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (04:06)
No.
But I just, yeah, no.
I was, you know, because I was solo. And then as I started to grow, I also, there wasn't many.
social workers out there that was in the money space, but there were a lot of them that were passionate about it and want to. So I said, okay, I'm going, I guess I'm going to be the one in Connecticut to have that group practice that is solely on your financial well-being, because nobody was doing it either. So I was like, all right, I'm going to do it. So I became more passionate about teaching and about like supporting others at
Taylor Gilbert (04:28)
Yeah.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (04:55)
wanted to get into this space and wanted to learn it and know it. then that kind of, that's kind of become my thing is I'm really passionate about like just teaching others and inspiring them so that I could pour into them so that they can do better and do better work. So.
Taylor Gilbert (05:00)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (05:16)
That's kinda how I got it. So now I'm in the background right now, but I am now pouring into the therapist that I do have on my team by doing the workshops, ⁓ providing that supervision with them.
Taylor Gilbert (05:31)
Mm-hmm. Do you you guys like your focus at your practice is financial therapy like people are coming to you for financial therapy specifically? Wow, so are all your all your clients it's like a hundred percent financial therapy practice
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (05:42)
specifically. Yes.
Yep, that is it.
Taylor Gilbert (05:50)
That is,
that's really impressive. Cause I think I talked to someone recently and they were saying, I don't know, just like how challenging it could potentially be to like, I think maybe they tried it and it was challenging to like get a full caseload with financial therapy. something that you're, you're doing something right.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (06:12)
Yeah, it is, I won't, I mean, it's challenging, but I think, like with all things, it's that marketing piece, just with all things when it comes to business and how you approach it and ⁓ I'm a speaker, so I'm like constantly doing workshops on this, which helps a lot.
Taylor Gilbert (06:20)
Yeah. Right.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, definitely. So take us back to early career, Laquisha in school, what she wanted to do, like what were her aspirations, why she wanted to become a social worker, all those things.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (06:49)
Ooh, so, so good. I laugh
because I want to do all the things. That's me. Yeah, yeah. So I, well, let me back up way, way, way up. Is in high school, I actually thought I was going to be an accountant. I thought I was going, I know.
Taylor Gilbert (06:56)
Clearly you're doing them, so...
Huh?
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (07:17)
I literally went to ⁓ undergraduate school initially that freshman year majoring in accountant and then as I was there I was like yeah no this isn't for me I don't I don't
I don't want to just sit behind a desk and not deal with people. I'm like, this is it for me. So then I switched my major to criminal justice because I said, ⁓ I want to help people in the criminal justice field because I want to understand the psychology behind it. I want to understand why people do these type of things. How does that work? So I...
Taylor Gilbert (07:53)
Mm-hmm.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (07:57)
Got into that, graduated with my bachelor's in criminal justice. ⁓ I started working in the field as like case manager after graduating. And then I was like, ⁓ I need to be a therapist. And in order to do that, because I wanted to get deeper, I wanted to really start to understand behaviors, I said in order to do that, I have to go back to school for my master's.
and I had a great supervisor who encouraged me, like looking at all the different options, she actually encouraged me to go into social work. So I got into social work. ⁓ I had no clue where that was going to lead me. I still didn't know that I could do like money in social work. ⁓ I just knew that at that point, I was kind of going through my own like money.
Taylor Gilbert (08:24)
Mm-hmm.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (08:48)
challenges I would say, money things that were coming up for me, the behaviors that were coming up for me. well that's great. So what was coming up for me was I was avoiding. I would not want to open up the credit card bill. I did not want to do that. I didn't want to look at my bank account. I was definitely somebody that was ⁓ getting like the bank fee, overdraft fee.
Taylor Gilbert (08:54)
Like what? Like what? Tell me. Tell me.
Mmm. ⁓
Overdraft? ⁓ huh.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (09:17)
The overdraft fee, I wasn't keeping up, but what I was doing was I wanted to keep up with the Joneses kind of a thing. I was still spending on whatever I could get my hands on. ⁓ I was into getting my nails, my hair, getting the shoes, the bags, all that stuff. I was really into it, but I really couldn't afford it.
Taylor Gilbert (09:25)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And this is when you were,
this is when you were an undergrad. So, okay.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (09:45)
A little bit of
undergrad and then graduate school I was ⁓ figuring it out and changing it. So I was changing the behavior.
Taylor Gilbert (09:49)
Okay.
Okay, what was the...
what was your... I don't know, lightbulb moment or just like how did you kind of become to realize like this is this is not working for me, I need a shift. ⁓
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (10:09)
Great question. The light bulb moment was probably I had just had my daughter. My daughter was like one at the time and I was writing like all the bills we needed we need to pay down and I was like wait we don't really got enough money for groceries like after paying like all your creditors after paying all the debt and I'm like
Who, like what kind of parent am I? Like this, this, what am I doing? And I was saying that to myself literally like, what is going on here? Why, why is this happening? ⁓ Then I also thought, and this is because of ⁓ my family in the background and what I've learned, I thought that I, like I was supposed to just have bad credit at that time. I thought I'm just not gonna pay these
Taylor Gilbert (10:42)
Hmm... Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (11:09)
the credit card bills and it's just gonna go away. It'll go away. I'll just ignore it. Nah, it will just go away. ⁓ But you know, the phone's gonna ring and that's okay, the phone could ring. ⁓ I'm just gonna ignore it. It'll eventually end. ⁓ But I didn't like that feeling. I didn't like that yes.
Taylor Gilbert (11:10)
Mm-hmm.
Just ignore it, don't pay, yeah, okay.
Mm.
That's stressful. It's
so stressful just like having that weight. Yeah, carrying that weight.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (11:40)
Yeah, it was
definitely a weight on me and I did not like it at all. And I'm like, I don't know how, like some of my family members were like, okay with this. I was like, cause I don't like it. But this is what I saw. This is what I saw growing up. And so I thought this is just how you did things.
Taylor Gilbert (11:56)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Right. It's normalized too. it's like, I think there's also, there's also at times, you know, when you're learning from people in your life and just American society around money and how we spend and the normalization of us. Yeah. Having credit card debt and all that and all that stuff. It's just like, okay. Everyone's living with this stress. This is, this is this
could be my normal or it's okay if this is my normal, you know? And it, and obviously there's like a caveat, caveat, caveat, right? Around like, you might not be able to be making enough money to forge your bills and like all that stuff. But just, think, I just think going back to you, just, that's what you were taught and that's what you were shown. And that's what you thought was, you know, just, that's how we're all living. mean, which is true, but
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (12:41)
Yes. ⁓
That's exactly it. I thought
that you don't pay the cable bill so you could pay the light bill, and then you eventually, like it's a circle, to rob Peter to pay Paul is what they would say.
Taylor Gilbert (13:01)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's stressful. But you have this moment. You can't afford your groceries and you're like, what girl? Let me have a talk. Let me let me have a talking with you. Yeah.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (13:16)
What's going on? Yeah. Seriously. I was like, yeah, this is not okay. What are we doing? What is happening? What is happening here?
And I started looking at my behavior and my mom will...
Probably not like me saying this, but she, what I realized about her was she had some unresolved childhood trauma and part of that was she would go to the stores, like to the mall and everything. She would just shop as it was a way of coping. Like she would just be shopping. I had took that behavior on myself and she had taught me where she's like, you know, it's okay, just go ahead and get the credit card and you just pay a little bit off over time. Like you just pay it over time.
Taylor Gilbert (13:52)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (14:06)
So a learned behavior,
Taylor Gilbert (14:07)
Yeah.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (14:08)
a behavior that I was like, wait, this is not a healthy one for me. We can't do this. So how can I change this when I'm stressed, I'm anxious, I'm overwhelmed? What are some other things that I can do that I don't just have to run and feel like I need to buy something? Because that's what was happening ⁓ at that time. doing that.
Taylor Gilbert (14:14)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (14:35)
and recognizing my behavior, setting boundaries, because that's the other thing I had to start doing, is setting boundaries with my family, being able to say no when I couldn't go out and go to certain vacations or going by certain things. I had to learn how to set those boundaries and what they felt like, and it did not feel good at all. And yeah.
Taylor Gilbert (15:02)
Yeah, that's hard.
It's hard to be like, actually, no, that's not in the budget. That's not in the budget. Yeah. How was that received?
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (15:05)
you
It's not in the budget. Not in the budget, no.
Not good. Well, initially, initially it was just like, no, you can do it. It's, and the people around me, they don't know what they don't know. they're trying to, they want me to be a part of certain things or they want me to spend certain stuff and they don't understand. ⁓
Taylor Gilbert (15:27)
Mm-hmm.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (15:37)
But so for some people they did, but for some others they're like, I don't understand, like you did this before, like it's okay, like just do it again. And I'm like, no, I'm starting something new. Credit cards are bad, I'm not using credit cards if I don't have the cash. It's not happening at that time. ⁓
Taylor Gilbert (15:52)
Mm hmm. Right. But now she's
now she's she's a credit card junkie with the I shouldn't say junkie, but you guys know what I mean. She she loves her credit card points, but there's there's a way to utilize credit cards to your benefit. Right. But we don't need to get into all that. But yeah.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (16:01)
Yeah!
There is.
But it brings up
a good point because I didn't know back then. I didn't know that I had, I basically created like a, it became credit card trauma for me.
Taylor Gilbert (16:25)
Mmm.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (16:26)
And I just didn't know how to utilize credit cards. I didn't know how to really use them. No one really taught me how to use them. And I never looked at the interest rate, ⁓ because that's the other thing is, you know, even though they put the interest rate on your statement somewhere, like you don't pay attention. You really don't pay attention to that. I never looked at and realized how much I was I was paying in interest. I was just like, you know what? I have a credit card and
Taylor Gilbert (16:33)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (16:55)
and I can swipe it. And now that I turn that, now that I learn more healthy ways of managing money, managing credit cards, I'm like, wait, I don't have to buy just material things on credit cards. I can actually use it to pay my cell phone bill and use the cash in my account to pay the credit card bill off. And then I'm...
it's paid off and then I get points out of it and I could travel. So, but for a long time it was very hard for me to do that because I was like afraid. I said, no, I don't want go back down the rabbit hole. I don't want to use credit cards.
Taylor Gilbert (17:23)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. So
you paid off. How much debt did you have? Do you remember?
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (17:41)
By the time I got to the point where I could total it up, it was roughly about 25 to $30,000 of credit card debt. ⁓ And that was just by the time I felt good about actually totaling it up. So I was paying on it before, but when you're in that state of anxiety and fear, you just are like...
Taylor Gilbert (18:05)
It's really stressful to confront those numbers.
That's why I say it. That's how I like to kind of describe that experience. You're like confronting the numbers. You know, it's hard.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (18:10)
Yup.
Exactly.
That was really hard. So I always tell people, I'm like, it was definitely higher than that, but I wasn't ready to confront the number. And then by the time I was able to confront it and add it up, it was roughly like 25 to $30,000 of credit card debt. And that was literally just credit cards. And I have nothing to show for it.
Taylor Gilbert (18:40)
Yeah, you had your student
loans also. yeah. Okay, so that was kind of your beginning money story, but this is happening end of undergrad, intergrad school, and then what were your practicums in school?
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (18:48)
Yes.
⁓ I did, I was a clinical case manager and then I did, ⁓ outpatient clinician as well. And then after I graduated, I actually became an outpatient clinician ⁓ in community, community mental health, yeah, pretty much. Yeah, that's what we say here in Connecticut, sorry, but yes.
Taylor Gilbert (19:21)
When you say outpatient, you mean like just community mental health? okay. Okay. ⁓
Outpatient. don't know,
when I think of outpatient, for some reason, I think of it being like at a hospital or like a behavior. I don't know. Anyways. OK.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (19:40)
Yeah,
it's community, yeah, like a community mental health agency. And that's where I landed like right after I graduated is, and I feel like at least back then that was kind of the way, like you're kind of told how to go and especially when you want to be like fully licensed, they're like, this is how you do it.
Taylor Gilbert (19:44)
Okay.
Honestly, I
feel like this is also a conversation for another day. We're going to have someone on. you, have you met Patrick Taylor on, he's on LinkedIn, he's macro pathways. Do you know who I'm talking about? I want him to come on the podcast for a lot of reasons, but one thing I find interesting, I talked to him recently and he said that, well, he's doing his DSW at
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (20:18)
⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen this stuff,
Taylor Gilbert (20:31)
⁓ USC and he's studying what he calls the micro pipeline in social work.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (20:39)
Mmm, okay, yeah.
Taylor Gilbert (20:40)
So
essentially our schools are, yeah, there's this pipeline of us becoming, being, being micro social workers. And there's really not a lot of exploration for us in terms of like the macro side. Anyways, that's all I'll say about that. I think that's super interesting, but just cause you were, cause you were just like, you know, they were, this is, they were pushing me that way. And I'm like, that's, that's the whole thing. But you wanted to be a therapist, but you wanted to be a therapist.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (20:59)
No, that...
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, they did.
I did want to be a, I knew I wanted, I knew I wanted to be a therapist, but I knew I wanted to get my LCSW. And I think that is what the full licensure was like, I just need to get that. That was the goal. I was like, how can I get that? How can I get my full licensure? And that was the goal. But they pushed to do community, mental health, like.
Taylor Gilbert (21:17)
Mm-hmm.
That was your goal. Yeah. Yeah.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (21:36)
go, everyone, it's like everybody goes, everybody goes to one of those agencies. And then, and you know it's funny, it's funny because towards the end when you're getting ready to graduate and everyone's like applying to jobs, we're all talking about all the different agencies because they're all common, which one we're all going to, right? Like it's, it was just so ingrained to like go this route, just do it.
Taylor Gilbert (21:40)
you
Right.
Interesting.
What year was that that you graduated?
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (22:05)
2017?
Taylor Gilbert (22:09)
Okay, do you remember how much your salary was?
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (22:13)
Ooh, when I went into it, I want to say it was 50,000 as a fresh new graduate. But I'm in Connecticut, so.
Taylor Gilbert (22:21)
What does that mean to
you? Do you feel like it's higher cost of living? I don't... Okay.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (22:25)
higher cost of living, yes.
So, like I don't know what, cause what's the average out in California for a brand new social worker if they go into community mental health.
Taylor Gilbert (22:38)
⁓ I, my first job was in Oregon. ⁓ and my, I ended up working at community mental health, even though I actually, I did not want to. I, that was just like the only job I could get. ⁓ I was, I was a medical social worker, like health. I was in the health track. I did hospice. Like I worked at the VA and I was trying to get into a hospital or a hospice agency. Couldn't get a call back. And this community mental health agency was like, why are you?
I got paid 40,000, that was in 2018.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (23:08)
Mm-hmm.
Okay, yeah. But it still was not, I mean it still wasn't good. Like, no.
Taylor Gilbert (23:19)
It's not a lot of money. 50,000,
40,000, like, no. That's... no. Yeah.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (23:25)
Yeah,
it's looking back and especially for the amount of work that you do, it was not, it wasn't good.
Taylor Gilbert (23:33)
Yeah.
Mm hmm. Yeah, I, I really I'm just like, have a vision that we can just change the system in that way of just like getting community mental health agencies to pay people more. Have you seen that trend going around online where? Well, have you seen there's the video of McDonald's CEO eating the McDonald's hamburger?
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (24:05)
He takes a little bite.
Yes. Yes.
Taylor Gilbert (24:12)
So
that's hilarious because he actually looks like he doesn't even like it. But ⁓ someone ⁓ like reshared kind of like a clip of that and said, this was on LinkedIn. They said, I'd like to see the CEO of LinkedIn try to find a real job through LinkedIn. And I'm like, that's hilarious. So I had posted.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (24:26)
Mm-hmm.
Whoa!
That's a good one.
Taylor Gilbert (24:41)
I'd like to see administrators at schools of social work try to survive being students while also doing unpaid labor at their required practicums. But bringing it back to the community mental health, like I'd like to see these CEOs of these community mental health agencies try to survive on 40,000, 50,000 seeing a gazillion patients a week getting all their charting done.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (24:56)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Taylor Gilbert (25:09)
I'd like to see that. I'd like to see that.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (25:10)
Can I say
I was hired for 40 hours a week at Community Mental Health, making $50,000 a year, and I was working way more than the 40 hours, because I would love to see that as well, because I was, every slot, they booked your schedule full, you had 30 minutes for lunch, but you also needed to go ahead and get your notes done.
Taylor Gilbert (25:22)
40 hours.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (25:37)
trying to plan for your next client to come, but then they didn't give you that. So it was just go, go, go, go. And then I'm at home, now I'm doing notes and it's my off time.
Taylor Gilbert (25:45)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it's ridiculous. So ⁓ the book that you have is called Dear Therapist You Deserve More, A Guide to Financial Freedom, Career Growth, and Personal Fulfillment. ⁓ I know it's not just you, you have other people who authored it with you, but I think we're just gonna kinda skip over you being at Community Mental Health, kind of finding your journey.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (26:15)
Jump.
Taylor Gilbert (26:18)
And
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (26:19)
Yeah.
Taylor Gilbert (26:19)
like what inspired you to want this book to like become a thing?
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (26:26)
Well, honestly, it was all of that and community mental health was part of that ⁓ and in the schools. And it's funny how like you talked about how we're on the track to micro and missing that macro is because I wish I had somebody else to tell me about, especially in social work, this big world out here that you could do so much more with. There's so many different things.
Taylor Gilbert (26:53)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (26:56)
that you can do that now, you know, now I know, now I see it, but I wish somebody, wish somebody when I was like figuring it out on my journey and being like, all right, what do I want to do? Who do I really want to be? I was like, maybe I'll be a trauma therapist. That's what I said at one point. ⁓ I didn't have that.
Taylor Gilbert (27:02)
Right.
Yeah.
There's only like a handful of
options that we hear about. Yeah, totally.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (27:24)
Yeah,
that was it. And so I was like, all right, I want to get a group of other therapists that could just have these love letters out there in the world. Yeah, that when you're in school or when you just about get out and you're trying to figure out what do I want to do now that I have this degree? Where do I want to go?
Taylor Gilbert (27:40)
Aww. I love that.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (27:54)
look and read and feel like, you know what, I don't have to just go to community mental health agency. I can ⁓ be a macro social worker and do other things. I can get involved in like legislation and policy, because that often, you know, we forget about that. I can, so many.
Taylor Gilbert (28:01)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Right. I can work in the sports sector. Like we just had sport, you know,
some sports social workers that were on. I recently, I'm hoping to have this person on the podcast, but I met a veterinary, veterinary, yeah, veterinary social worker. So she works at a hospital. She works at an animal hospital in the emergency department, supporting people who are bringing in their pets. mean, everyone who, everyone knows if you have a beloved pet and it's
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (28:28)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Taylor Gilbert (28:45)
anything's going wrong with them, they die, whatever. I mean, it's just devastating. So anyways, we don't have to go through the list of all the things, but yeah, there's a lot out there.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (28:49)
Yeah.
There's so much out there. And I guess a part of that journey also became with the financial social work because I wasn't seeing many people talk about money, but I went through my...
my own journey and I knew how it felt for me and the behavior and you know the reason why I was able to change it was because I started going down the rabbit hole and reading up on books and articles and listening to ⁓
different podcasts and things like that to really figure out like, hey, something, this isn't right here. I don't have to live this way. I could do other things. ⁓ But also, how much money caused me anxiety and its own stress and overwhelm and the fact that that wasn't even discussed really when I went to school. So I said, know, like I want other,
Taylor Gilbert (29:32)
Mm-hmm.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (29:55)
and want other social workers to know like, hey, you can change the world. You can do whatever it is that you want to do and where you have a desire. ⁓ It's just like when I feel like what I'm seeing right now with some student social workers is everyone feels like they got to get a niche. And they're like, I need to figure that out. And I always tell them, slow down. Like, get in.
get involved, get into trying different things, but when your niche comes, it will just come. Like will just come to you. Like you can't just jump into something. ⁓
Taylor Gilbert (30:27)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And I think one of the
things that I noticed in the book was like multiple people were kind of highlighted. You also, ⁓ you included, talked about just being curious, being curious about what's potentially out there. And I also feel, I also feel the same when I talk to people where it's like,
I just posted a video on TikTok like a couple of days ago where I was like, you guys, if you're graduating, I get it. It's stressful. Everyone's like, oh, what do want to do? What do you, what are you going to do? You know, it's like asking a five year old, what do want to be when you grow up? It's stressful, you know, and it's okay that you don't know, but to you figure it out.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (31:09)
Yeah.
Taylor Gilbert (31:17)
as you're going through your career and changing jobs and realizing like, oh, I did that one thing, I learned a lot, not my thing, I'm moving over here and just kind of seeing your career as this ever evolving thing and not like the first job out of school is gonna be your forever job. That's a lot of pressure, but also, I talked to someone yesterday, I said, you know,
I hate to be this person too, but like, you also might not find the thing that is like so fulfilling. And, you know, I think that's our ideal scenario. We all like idolize this scenario where, my God, I found my passion and it's just the best. And I understand that and I get it. And I think it's also okay for some people to just be like, you know what?
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (31:56)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor Gilbert (32:15)
I don't know. ⁓ Nothing has really kind of sparked joy in the way that I thought it would, but I'm working in a job that I feel like I'm making a good impact. I like my coworkers. I get paid well. have a good manager. And that's also enough, and that's also okay for it just to be that. It's your job. You go and do it. You go home. And it doesn't need to be your whole personality.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (32:35)
Mm-hmm.
Exactly, that's exactly, but that is exactly it. Like it does not need to be your entire personality. And that's why I think it took time for me to even realize that and it has to feel good. That's why when I go, I know I'm, I.
tap into a lot of different areas, but for me, it's all about how it feels and how it feels good because that's how I get the balance. I don't just work, I also have a very big personal life, but it all balances out.
Taylor Gilbert (33:16)
Mm-hmm, girl. Yeah, absolutely.
And one thing I love about your book is that I appreciate how all of you are sharing, you know, there's struggles, personal struggles, professional struggles, whatever. But but really, in the end, all of you are saying this is a career that I really love. And I've been able to find I've been able to.
craft a life and a career that works for me. And because I think it's, it's stereotypical, right? That social workers are struggling, low pay, burnout. I think on the back you put, where is it?
redefine that you want to redefine the meaning of success in the field of social work a calling typically known for grilling hours and low pay which it's like we all already know that that is a potential and there's the There's the both right? It's like yeah, there are social workers that are getting paid very poorly and that needs to change and There are also social workers that are getting paid. Well that are
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (34:18)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor Gilbert (34:26)
loving their careers and those are the stories that I am trying to highlight in this on this podcast. I love that you're doing it with this book because I think we need more examples that this is some, this is a career that we can thrive in, you know? And so it's really, yeah, it's really inspirational. And I feel like gives hopefully these conversations give people hope of like, okay, this
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (34:46)
Exactly.
Taylor Gilbert (34:55)
It's not all doom and gloom, you know?
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (34:58)
Exactly.
is definitely not. And I'll say at one point I felt that. And I'll say I felt that ⁓ in community mental health when I was burned out. I was going, going, going and I was like, this may not be for me. This isn't it. ⁓ But that was why I made changes and you...
Taylor Gilbert (35:09)
Hmm. ⁓
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (35:25)
I love how you're saying like you're forever evolving and you're figuring this out and you move on to the next. Like, all right, I got great experience from that. I will say that.
Taylor Gilbert (35:28)
Mm-hmm.
I got, yeah,
right, same. It's like I learned a ton working at the Community Mental Health Agency and I learned a lot about the DSM, which is BS and not BS, another conversation for another day. But I learned kind of the ins and outs of charting and just like all of that. So yeah, definitely.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (35:51)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Taylor Gilbert (36:05)
were ever evolving. And I'm like, I would have never expected me to be here, honestly, talking to you on this podcast about social work and money and me like trying to transition into finance, you know, like that was never on my bingo card as someone coming out of grad school, not a chance. so like, you know, just being open to possibilities.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (36:27)
Me either.
Taylor Gilbert (36:34)
is huge.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (36:34)
Exactly,
exactly. And it still blows my mind ⁓ every day when somebody sends me a message, inbox me or writes me email or something and they tell and they say like how inspiring I am to them and how motivating they are. ⁓ But it's like it blows my mind because I'm like wow, like I helped make an impact on that person encouraging them to like.
Taylor Gilbert (36:49)
That's the best.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (37:01)
go to the next step that they want to go to, you know what I mean?
Taylor Gilbert (37:05)
Yes.
No, that is so... that is... yeah, I love that. So, like, I'm curious, you know, what would you have said? What do you feel like right now? Laquisha today, like, what would you have told your new grad school self? Like, advice to your new grad school self?
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (37:26)
my
⁓ It would be to explore all your options. You do not need to rush and jump into things and do not feel as though the first job that you get is supposed to be your forever job. ⁓ And I love how you said that because...
Taylor Gilbert (37:48)
Mm-hmm.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (37:52)
I at one point. thought, you you get into community mental health as the on the ground, the therapist, and you move up, you become the supervisor, and you just keep moving up that ladder over there. But it wasn't, that wasn't where the cards landed. And I really feel as though like now I'm in my purpose and in.
in my calling, what I'm supposed to be doing here. I feel like I'm supposed to be like an adjunct teacher for a specific reason. And I feel like I'm supposed to be doing the group practice and being the leading financial therapy practice in Connecticut. So, yeah.
Taylor Gilbert (38:35)
She would, she could have never guessed. She could have never guessed it. Oh my gosh, I love that. Okay, so ending, I'm gonna have kind of a little bit of a, I'm calling it, because your book is Dear Therapist You Deserve More. I'm gonna say Dear Social Worker. We're gonna have a little lightning round of just quick inspiration advice.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (38:37)
Never.
Never. Never.
Mm-hmm.
Taylor Gilbert (39:05)
to those listening. Okay. Dear social worker who is burned out, what would you want them, what would you want to tell them right now?
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (39:16)
Go rest, stop doing that. It's okay, take your PTO. ⁓
Taylor Gilbert (39:17)
Mm.
take your PTO, rest, get out in nature. ⁓ All the, I mean it's like all the stereotypical things, but it's like they're stereotypical because they also, you know, work, but not to say that like your burnout in self care is all your fault and all on you. That's, you know, systematic. We're not gonna go there right now, but.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (39:48)
There
are, there's a lot of systems issues with that, but you also, if you're feeling that, yeah.
Taylor Gilbert (39:52)
We also need to take care of ourselves. Yeah, yeah, take,
yeah, absolutely. ⁓ Dear social worker who feels guilty about wanting to earn more money, what would you say?
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (40:02)
Mmm,
you deserve it. Dear social worker, like you deserve that. And I say that with the bottom of my heart, like I truly fully mean that. ⁓ You wanna earn more money, you can go get it. You deserve to earn more money. And keep in mind that our social work degrees can...
can go very far in a lot of different places and we tend to forget that. So definitely go for it.
Taylor Gilbert (40:33)
Mm-hmm. Yeah,
absolutely. ⁓ Dear social worker who feels stuck in their career.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (40:42)
Hmm. Well, I would start asking a lot of questions as to stuck how and what ways and where can you go? And if you're stuck, do you want to move? What do you want to do? What's holding you back?
Taylor Gilbert (40:52)
Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (41:03)
Because
that's the other thing that I've learned over the years now is those limiting beliefs where we feel like we can't go anywhere. They're holding us back and sometimes they're deeper than what we realize. And so you have to push up against that limiting belief. Again, I never thought I would be here with you even doing this. I never...
Taylor Gilbert (41:21)
Mm-hmm.
What do you mean? What do you mean being here doing this?
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (41:32)
I never thought I would even be on different podcasts. I never thought this would be my thing. I never thought I would write a book. When I was in the eighth grade, I was put into this advanced English class and it was myself and...
one other black student, the rest of the students in that class, it was probably like 20, 25 kids, were all white. And they said things to me like, what are you doing here? You you gotta work really hard to be here. things like that, that as a kid, you know, I'm like 13 years old, as a kid I didn't really get like what was happening. But they made it known like, hey, like you're not supposed to be in here.
Taylor Gilbert (42:02)
I'm so sorry.
⁓
Hmmmm
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (42:19)
So I thought, I thought I'm not smart. I'm not smart because I'm a black female and I'm just never gonna be a smart person to like figure things out. So the fact of where I am today, now I know. Now I can, now I'm like, oh, I'm smart. Like I could figure this out. I could do this. I could really do these things. Like it's okay. And if you fail, you get back up. Like you learn from it. You have to learn from the every situation you learn from.
Taylor Gilbert (42:29)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (42:49)
⁓ But as a kid, that limiting belief, that got so ingrained into me that I had to work on that and be like, wait, that's not true.
Taylor Gilbert (43:01)
That is so... thank you for sharing that and also... that is so awful! UGH! Just thinking about you little... little Laquisha and just like... yeah. And now you're showing them like, look what I did! Look what I'm doing! You know, I'm gonna be a little petty here, look what I did! Hmm...
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (43:07)
Yeah, it is. It is.
That's literally...
That's exactly what I say though. I'm like, you know what? Proved you wrong.
Taylor Gilbert (43:29)
I did it, I did it, yes. my gosh.
Okay, so last question. ⁓ What do you hope people take away from this book?
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (43:41)
that they can do whatever they want in life. In social work, they can literally do whatever you want. You know how they say the sky is the limit? It's not, it's beyond that. Like, go as far ⁓ as you want. I literally, I don't know if you can see it, but I got a, probably not. I got a tattoo. I got, no, no, In New York, can't see it, can't turn around.
Taylor Gilbert (43:55)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-mm. No, it's blurry. You got a tattoo in South ⁓ This girl just came back from Africa.
What is it? What is it? ⁓ I love that.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (44:11)
I did come back from Africa. It says dream bigger. ⁓ My tattoo
says dream bigger because of that, because I said, know what, my dreams, at one point I used think my dreams were too small, or excuse me, too big, and they're not. Keep dreaming, keep dreaming big, and go for it. When I sit back and I look back and I'm saying to myself, ⁓ I didn't think.
Taylor Gilbert (44:28)
Yeah.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (44:39)
this was possible. didn't think I was gonna come as far as I've been able to come. And now I'm sitting here and I'm like, wow, like, like you're literally building a.
Taylor Gilbert (44:48)
Yeah, you've built a
career that you love.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (44:52)
Yeah, I did. ⁓ But I didn't think the community mental health agency, the one fresh out of school, did not think that I was going to be here. So I thought I was limited. So I want people to keep dreaming big and go for it.
Taylor Gilbert (44:54)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, and I also think it's important to, you know, seek out stories like this, listen to these podcasts like this and just like, just be inspired and just hearing stories and being around people who are thinking big for themselves and are excited about life. And I think that energy really, it really impacts us having people around you that like have that same energy and excitement. ⁓
Right? Mm hmm.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (45:39)
It does. It's the community. You have to
have that. And yes, I just got back from South Africa. And that community that I went with, it really lit my fuel to be like, wow, you got to keep going. You got to keep doing what you're doing. Because ⁓ all the professionals I was with for the time I was there. ⁓
Taylor Gilbert (45:55)
Yeah.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (46:04)
They were amazing and we pour into each other, we support each other and you talk it out. And you have to have those up and down stories, because we all go through stuff. We all do. ⁓ But it's nice to just have the community.
Taylor Gilbert (46:14)
Yeah.
Yeah, I love that. ⁓ Well, thank you so much for joining me today and where if people want to reach out to you and chat with you and connect with you, where do you hang out usually?
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (46:35)
Usually I hang out on LinkedIn, which is just Laquisha Clemens. ⁓ That's probably my biggest platform over there, but I am on Instagram as themoneytherapist underscore one. I am on there, not heavy, but I check it. And my website at...
Taylor Gilbert (46:37)
Mm-hmm.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (46:59)
freedomlifetherapy.com. You can always send me a message up there. You can email me through there ⁓ if you want to reach me. those are my two platforms.
Taylor Gilbert (47:11)
Yeah, awesome. I'm super excited for your journey and all the things that you're doing. Wait, one thing we didn't talk about, you're in school. You started your program, did you? When did you? Okay, tell us about that real quick.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (47:20)
No, not yet.
Okay, so I got accepted to a doctorate in social work program and that actually starts this summer and I wanted to do that because I'm so passionate about social work and passionate about money and emotions that I really want to get more into the school spotlight to be able to bring this all in together, what I didn't have.
When I went to school, I want to be able to train other social workers to understand money and emotions and behaviors and then how to help their clients with that. So they're walking out prepared and ready for that. That's long-term goals. So I set it here. So when it happens, three years. No, no, no.
Taylor Gilbert (47:54)
Mm-hmm.
Yes. I love that. How long is your program?
No, that's not bad. That's not terrible.
Okay, awesome. I love that. I'm super excited for you and just all the things ahead, yes. All right, everyone, thanks for listening. I also, I haven't really fully mentioned this on the podcast, but I did compile, I would say, over 270 job titles for social workers.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (48:28)
Thank you.
Taylor Gilbert (48:46)
what we were talking about. There's lots of things that we can do. Sometimes it's hard to find the job because it's not titled social worker. It could be titled community manager, crisis specialist, etc. So I'll put a link to the PDF in the show notes if you want to check that out. I'll put a link to Laquisha's book. ⁓ And yeah, thanks for joining us and we'll be back in two weeks.
LaQueshia Clemons, LCSW (49:10)
Thank you.