9. Working Internationally as a Social Worker

Taylor (00:00)
Hello everyone. Welcome to the Social Work to Wealth podcast. I'm Taylor and I'm here with my co-host Faith. And today we're going to be talking about international social work. seen, you know, I've seen a lot online about people asking
you know, how to work abroad as a social worker. I know Faith has tried to explore, you know, find resources. So we're going to talk about that and lucky for us, Faith has worked internationally in Switzerland. So we're going to get to talk to her about her experience. And then at the end, have...
I've done some digging online and I have some resources that I want to share with you about some job boards to potentially look into to find international jobs and then a social work programs and things like that. So I will share that at the end, but let's get into talking to faith about this. So how, I guess, why did you want to work abroad? Like how did this come about?
Faith (01:07)
Yeah.
Yeah, so I do feel like I had an interest in international work in general for quite some time, like even dating back to college. So when I was in college, I did do some international humanitarian kind of work in Ethiopia and also in India. And I think that really sparked kind of this idea of, this would be really kind of cool to live abroad and work abroad at some point.
Taylor (01:36)
Mm-hmm.
Faith (01:39)
But when I went to get my masters, there was no international track, right? And so you, you know, and also if you don't really see somebody doing it before you, then it does feel kind of like a pipe dream. Like how am I gonna do this? I don't really know because I haven't seen anybody do it before me. So I think at that point when I started my masters, I had it as an idea in the back of my mind as something that would be really
cool to do, not necessarily possible. Or I didn't know how it would be possible. And I actually remember like stalking online this one. I don't know she's like an influencer or what her deal is, but she was an American who moved abroad to Switzerland.
Taylor (02:28)
Mmm.
Faith (02:28)
And I remember just like in grad school watching some of her videos, like a creep and be like, would be so cool if we were able to do that, so I just felt like that was something always kind of in the back of my mind. And, you know, Taylor, as you asked me to prepare for this podcast and think about what to share and I as I reflected on it more, I do think that even in my master's program, that was that thought was influencing
some of the internships that I chose with working with refugees and refugee resettlement. That was kind of like, I was like, oh, this is another area where I could do some international work, but here, you know, in the United States, like that's kind of an interesting field of social work that would be really interesting to get into. it.
Taylor (03:02)
Mm-hmm.
Faith (03:16)
satisfied that part of I don't know, looking to satisfy passion. So how it started was just like a natural desire to live, work abroad, help people abroad. That was just really always interesting to me.
when it came to finishing my masters in 2018, my husband was also finishing his PhD in chemistry. And so we were at this inflection point, we were kind of wondering what's next for us. And I pitched my dream of like living abroad and working abroad and maybe this could be a possibility. And he shot it down. Like the good husband he is. No.
Taylor (03:58)
You
Faith (04:04)
He's very analytical and was like, that's not practical. And I was like, but it is. he was, you know, he had had an international experience during grad school doing some research in Germany. So in my mind, I saw it as more possible. Look, you had this experience during your PhD. You worked abroad.
Taylor (04:06)
Totally. Yeah.
Faith (04:31)
maybe this could, for a summer, maybe this could be something we could do long term. And so he initially was like, he didn't really know what he wanted to do, but he knew he wanted to postdoc probably. And so I just had to get to the place where I let it go. I had to get to the place where I was like, this might not be a possibility for us. And if it's supposed to be, it will be. If not,
Taylor (04:50)
Hmm.
Faith (04:57)
it's not gonna happen and I need to be okay with that. so some time had passed and we were getting closer to graduation and I think my husband was really trying to think through what he wanted to do. And so I remember getting a call from him and he said, meet me at this bar. And I was like, okay. No, seriously, just like, I have something to tell you, meet me at a bar. I'm like, okay, which one? There's a lot of bars in Wisconsin and we know this.
Taylor (05:00)
Mm-hmm.
No context.
gosh.
Faith (05:28)
Like, where are we going?
I like a good surprise. I met up with him and I remember him saying, like, let's go for it. And I got really excited. And I couldn't believe it because I really did let it go as something that just wasn't a possibility. And he, in the meantime, was just mulling it over. He usually says no, and then he mulls it over and then he comes along. He needs to see it.
Taylor (05:39)
my gosh.
Faith (05:57)
you
know, just like anybody you need to make sure that it makes sense and that it actually is practical to some degree. And so I got really excited and he had been speaking to some people in his department about the idea and they were actually not negative about it. They were pretty supportive about it. And so he ended up applying to
for different opportunities abroad, one in the UK, one in Denmark, one in Germany, and then one, two actually in Switzerland. And so.
Taylor (06:27)
I feel like it's so much more common for like
people who are doing their PhDs to go abroad and do some research or like you said he went and did his inter- an internship in Germany. I feel like that's just so much more common in PhD programs. I don't know. What do you think? Yeah.
Faith (06:43)
think so. think so.
it was, they were collab, basically they, why he was able to work in Germany is they were collaborating on a project with researchers in Germany, his lab. And so then they were like, hey, come out for the summer. We need your expertise on this specific thing. And so it was kind of like, that opportunity came up for him to go there. And he, yeah, when he was doing his PhD. So it is, it was possible. He just needed to see how it would be possible for him.
Taylor (06:52)
Mmm, gotcha.
that's cool.
Yes.
Yeah.
Faith (07:13)
and
I needed to give him that space. yeah. Yeah.
Taylor (07:17)
Sorry, I got you sidetracked. So you were saying that he applied
to two in Switzerland, one in Germany, and where else?
Faith (07:23)
Denmark and then the UK. we had, you know, a couple, was like, throw like cast out a wide net and see what happens. Like, never hurts to apply, you know, like little, yeah. So,
Taylor (07:25)
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Faith (07:38)
He ended up getting two offers in Switzerland, and I think he was gonna get an offer in Germany also. And so then he interviewed at different labs, and they liked him, and he got two formal offers, and he accepted one of them in Switzerland. And so then it was real, right? And it was possible. in that process, I remember asking, well, what are the opportunities for me, visa-wise? So in terms of that, how that worked with a visa is
Taylor (07:53)
Wow.
Faith (08:08)
that because we were married and how this works for a lot of, I believe, many countries. Now this is my personal experience. I'm not an expert in this area, but in our experience, the school, the university sponsored.
Taylor (08:16)
Right. Right.
Faith (08:25)
husband. The university sponsored my husband to come and work at their university and through that I then got a work permit too. So because we were married I also got a work permit. Yes, yes. So how that works is they told us like where we needed to submit our paperwork and everything and then yeah they sponsored
Taylor (08:30)
Mm-hmm.
So they handled it for you guys, even yours. Wow.
Faith (08:54)
him and then I got a work permit because I was married to him. So the work permit in Switzerland that you need to open your own private practice is a permit B. A permit C is like one step farther and then you can become a citizen. So for us we were at the permit B level which meant I could work, open a business, anything, yeah, in that realm as long as I paid my taxes of course. So that was cool because
Taylor (09:18)
Mm-hmm.
Faith (09:24)
because that opened up opportunities for me that some people who just have a student visa are not going to be able to work. So I met some friends over there who were also from the United States, but they had student visas. And there's no way they could have worked on a student visa. They explored it, and that wasn't a possibility. So because it was a postdoc, it was a paid job.
Taylor (09:41)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Faith (09:54)
he was seen as an expert coming into the university, then he was not given a student visa. It was a Permit B visa.
Taylor (10:02)
Interesting.
Faith (10:03)
So our plan was to just do a year. We were like, we don't know what we're doing. We're just going to take a year, see what happens. And that was our original plan. for me, I was like, think I could not work for a year. Like, if worse comes to worst, can't find a job, nothing develops for me. I think I could handle a year. Yes, that was another big piece of it was like, could we live off of?
Taylor (10:27)
You guys could live off his salary for a year.
Faith (10:33)
And I remember us asking that to the university. mean, like, hey, like, do you think it's possible for a live off of this? And they were like, absolutely. Switzerland historically pays very well. So we knew that that would be OK. So in my mind, I was really just thinking if we'll give it a year and we'll just.
I'll just see what happens. had no idea. I remember specifically talking to my spouse about my one goal is if I could get like an internship or I could get some clinical hours, that would be awesome and I would be happy with that. So again, we didn't know what would come of it, but that was just our original plan. One year, if I get clinical hours, cool. If not, oh well, that was kind of the thought. Yeah.
Taylor (10:59)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Faith (11:28)
remember telling different professors about this idea because I was already like, how could I make this happen? How could I maybe do some international social work? And this is the part that I think I, reflecting back, still have feelings about. I love UW Madison. I'm just going to say I love UW Madison. They're the best ever. Yes. Yeah. There's a badger on my cup.
Taylor (11:36)
Yeah.
She's showing us a cup right now for people who are just listening. There's a badger on her cup representing... yeah.
Faith (11:58)
Yes,
so I love UW Madison, but when you are in any university system, you're going to meet people from all over with tons of different opinions on the world and how things should be, should happen and what you should pursue and what you shouldn't pursue. And I remember getting very negative feedback about this idea of working internationally that, you know, I wasn't going to find opportunities. There's no way you're going to get licensing hours and or clinical hours and.
Taylor (12:16)
Mmm.
Faith (12:27)
a lot of like, you speak the language? Which I totally understand makes sense if you're gonna move abroad. Of course you wanna be able to speak the language. But I do believe all of those were assumptions. And just not really...
Taylor (12:35)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Faith (12:46)
curate, were just assumptions being made. And I remember feeling quite discouraged and feeling, and I think this is how a lot of people feel with potentially wanting to do international social work, is again, it is a little bit more niched and it does feel like it's not necessarily an opportunity and there aren't a lot of resources out about it, like out there about it.
Taylor (12:47)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Faith (13:11)
And so I remember feeling a bit discouraged, but I was like, I'm going. So I just have to give it a shot. So so, yeah, we we got on a plane and we we got there. And I remember we like stayed in the Airbnb for a couple of weeks until we found an apartment. And it was wild. So I don't know what what next you want to hear about the process, but.
Taylor (13:19)
Yeah.
Wow, let's talk about how,
so the first, you know, position that you got first job, what did, what's the timeline on that? How long did it take you? What'd that look like?
Faith (13:48)
Yeah.
Yeah. And how did it happen? I.
for the first three months really struggled. Like I'm not gonna lie. I had a really hard time not having anything to do. Surprise, surprise. I, after you, you you get, we talk about this, get this nice shiny new degree, you wanna use it. And I was really wanting to do international social work. And so I was going to the library at my husband's university and researching and looking for opportunities and applied to different opportunities and I was getting shut down.
Taylor (13:57)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Faith (14:23)
quite a bit and I remember feeling no no yeah like emails like sorry like we're not looking right now or we're not or we are looking but you don't fit kind of the credentials we're looking for or just like no response at all and I remember feeling
Taylor (14:26)
Like, were you getting interviews at all? you just weren't getting, like people weren't getting back to you?
Mmm.
Faith (14:45)
like yeah everybody was right this is this is definitely not gonna happen I remember having a couple moments with my husband crying and being like I don't this is this is tough and
there was this moment, I don't know where this thought came or how I got to this point, but I was like, maybe because I was needing therapy myself, but I thought to myself, what would I do if I needed therapy and I'm living abroad? What would I do? And I just Googled English speaking therapists. And that started me down this whole journey, which was I found this whole community or I didn't find it. was connected.
with this whole community of English speaking expat therapists. And I remember being on one specific website and I saw the credentials for the therapist and it was an LCSW and he had gotten his masters in Minnesota, which Wisconsin has reciprocity with Minnesota. So I was like, well, if he's working here with a Minnesota license, like how is that possible? And so, and cause I was really siloing myself until like working for the UN.
Taylor (15:45)
my gosh.
huh.
Faith (15:59)
getting an internship with the UN. You know, the United Nations is right down the corner for me, like, or down the street. yeah, internships, anything which that's really competitive to get into, get in with the UN. So I learned that very quickly. Like, I don't know, this is not going to work for me. I'm, you know, dreamy eyed American like I want to work at the UN. Of course, that could be possible for people, but it was it was tough.
Taylor (16:00)
Mm-hmm.
You're applying. You're applying for those jobs.
Mm-hmm.
Hehehehehe
Faith (16:29)
You have to know people I think to get into the UN so So I that I just literally Step number one and this would be my advice to anybody if you find yourself abroad and you have the permit you need to work
is to network, step one, network. So I literally just emailed him and said, hi, I'm new to Switzerland. I saw that you have a similar license as I do. Went to UW Madison, know, kind of played that up a little bit and said, I'd love to.
Taylor (16:58)
Mm-hmm.
Faith (17:00)
meet with you and talk about how you're working as a therapist here. And he immediately responded and was like, I would love to meet with you. I'm so happy you're here. Let's meet for coffee. I went. I mean, this guy could have been, I mean, I'm assuming he wasn't bad, but I just, of course, right? So he was incredible, actually. So I went and he, the first, in the first meeting I had with him, he said, just open your own private practice.
Taylor (17:17)
Of course.
Faith (17:30)
And I remember thinking to myself, Like that feels really wrong. Yeah, I just graduated.
Taylor (17:34)
I just graduated. Yeah, we don't open private practices
after we graduate in the US.
Faith (17:42)
That's like a, that's not allowed, right? And so I was like, well, I don't know if that's legal. Is that legal? And he's like, here it is. Here it is definitely legal. I was like, okay. And he was a bit older. Like he was, you know, in his mid fifties, he was like senior. He wasn't just somebody, you know, that, I don't know. I felt like he knew what he was talking about. And I kind of put it to the side again and was like, I'm not going to do that. That seems really risky. That seems wild.
Taylor (17:44)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Faith (18:13)
But then he introduced me to a lot of other people who were also internationally trained, so like from the United States, from Canada, from the UK, from...
Yeah, just other places in Europe, but working privately in Switzerland. And I started talking with them and I started hearing the same thing. I talked to probably four to five other people, went out to coffee, networked, and they're like, open your own private practice. Open your own private practice. And I was like, well, maybe there's something to this. I don't know. And so I also so I still didn't do it right away. I kept it on the back burner because I just didn't feel confident. I didn't feel like I
Taylor (18:29)
Mm.
Faith (18:54)
I
do it, right? I just didn't feel confident. I didn't feel like that was the right next step for me. And so the next thing that happened was when I was networking, I met another really great American therapist who was from Texas and licensed in Texas. And they connected me with an international school, GEMS International School at the time.
Taylor (18:55)
Mm-hmm.
Faith (19:23)
And they said that Jems was looking for interns, was looking for counseling interns. And so she's like, I can set up an interview for you if you want. And yeah, and I was like, that'd be great. And so I went in, I interviewed, I talked to the principal, and they were like, we'd love to have you come on and work with our students and pull them from classes and do therapy with them, which is exactly what I was doing in the United States during my clinical work. So it applied, it worked, right?
Taylor (19:34)
Wow.
Faith (19:53)
So I was super excited and I thought to myself, well gosh, I'd love for these hours to be counted for clinical work. And so my next step was to see if that was even possible, right? Like is that possible for me to do it? And so I contacted the liaison, I think it was a legislative liaison for the NASW in Wisconsin and I emailed him and he literally zoomed me and I asked him my question like,
Taylor (19:59)
Mm-hmm.
Faith (20:23)
presented
my problem, I'm abroad, I'm gonna start working in the school as an internship, providing therapy, is it possible to count it as clinical hours? And he said, yes, it is. Yeah. And he said, and the reason for that is because in 2018, they had just passed legislation allowing clinical supervision to happen online.
Taylor (20:36)
yeah.
Mmm.
Faith (20:49)
So I
could, he's like, if you find a clinical supervisor who's willing to work with you and from the US, licensed in Wisconsin, who would meet with you virtually, then this should work.
Taylor (20:55)
Someone from the US.
Faith (21:02)
And so I reached out to my supervisor who supervised me in grad school and she agreed to do it. I was floored. I was like, my gosh, you're the best person ever. And she was just really excited for me to be there and to be doing, because she knew I wanted to work abroad and all that. And so then what we did is we petitioned the state. we, the,
Taylor (21:19)
Mm-hmm.
Faith (21:44)
as long as my clinical supervisor had a contact at the school to prevent me from working should I be doing anything unethical. So like I had to have the principal and my clinical supervisor talk to each other.
Taylor (22:01)
Mm-hmm.
Faith (22:02)
to say like, yep, Faith's doing good work. So was almost very similar to the US, where you have your on-site supervisor, and then you have your clinical supervisor. So once we had that set up, the system was created, and I was able to start. So that was really, yeah.
Taylor (22:05)
Gotcha.
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Wow. Yeah. what was the timeline from when you
got to Switzerland to you starting? Mm-hmm. okay, not terrible.
Faith (22:31)
that internship, three months. Mm-hmm,
not terrible. So I got there, well, four months. I got there in August of 2018, and I started in January of 2019. So.
Taylor (22:42)
Were you getting paid?
Faith (22:44)
No. So I was not getting paid for the first internship, but the same person who connected me with that internship also connected me with another school. And this school was looking to hire somebody to come up to, it was a mountain town far out of, it was like two hours away and they were looking for somebody to come up and work with their students in an international school setting. And so the next step I took,
was
to open my own business. So like I tabled it for four months and then I went for it. I was like okay everyone's telling me to do this I'm gonna do it. I need to make some money. So there's something here. So what that process looked like is I got some coaching there. I met with different therapists, asked them how they set up their businesses, talked to them about it, made sure it was legal of course and so I actually wrote it out the steps I took. So
Taylor (23:21)
Yeah, there's something here.
Faith (23:47)
So yeah, the first step was really sitting down with a few different therapists and asking them like, how did you do this? What paperwork did you fill out? How are you declaring your taxes in Switzerland and in the United States? What terms are you using? How does this work?
figuring out that my permit B actually worked to open a business, so I got that cleared. And then there was this kind of legal issue of the term you're going to use. So just like in the United States, they have protected terms in Switzerland. So I was not able to use the term psychotherapist, even though I can provide and I'm qualified to provide psychotherapy in the United States. Could not use that term in Switzerland. And I could not use obviously the term
psychologist or Swiss psychologist in any way. So the term that we were allowed to use was counselor and I had a legislative printout that was provided to me showing me the language showing me that I was allowed to use that term and that it was approved by the Swiss government. So once I saw that I was like, okay, this is legit. This isn't just, you know,
people just doing their thing. It was legitimate. And then the next step I took was to get a Swiss tax consultant. So I paid to have this person fill out all my business paperwork, file with the federal government, create my business so that it was all legal. I did not do any of that myself. That was all through a Swiss...
Taylor (25:33)
That's really nice that you're able to have the funds to just pay someone to do it for you because just so much peace of mind in that, you know, making sure you're doing it right.
Faith (25:41)
Yeah,
exactly. there was...
in Switzerland you do not have to pay taxes on a certain amount of income and then once you reach the threshold you needed to start declaring your income to the Swiss government. So I had a little bit of time to build up some income before I then registered the business, paid to have this tax person set it up for me. Because for them they're like if you're below $10,000 or whatever the threshold was, they're like that's not enough to really say you're making income.
income
in Switzerland. And so I had a little bit of cash flow that I could use to then invest in that. And I think it was like $1,000 for me to set that up. And I thought that's a one time thing, not terrible. I'm going to do it. So once that was set up, I felt very comfortable, felt at ease. I had insurance. I got insurance also for the work I was doing.
Taylor (26:29)
This one's Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Faith (26:47)
Yeah, and then I essentially had two gigs going on at the same time. So I would go to the school and get paid up in the mountains and then I would do my internship hours. And because those were both in school settings, I was allowed to count all those hours towards clinical work. Yeah, so that lasted for six months. And then in the summer, I got
Taylor (27:05)
Wow, that's awesome.
Faith (27:15)
I got a little smarter and I told Gems I'm not going to intern for them anymore and they can pay me my private rate if they want me to come back. yeah, and so they did. So they did. They were like, sounds great, totally makes sense. We think you're legit. And I was like, sweet. And then they asked me to essentially be like supervising two other interns from a different university, which is called Webster University in Switzerland. If you want to get your master's or in counseling, that is something you could
Taylor (27:23)
That's right. Yeah. Good for you, Faith.
Wow,
Faith (27:45)
do.
Taylor (27:46)
interesting.
Faith (27:47)
Yep. And there's also Pepperdine University in the United States has another kind of university connection in Switzerland. So if you're also interested in that, that's another school that does some international stuff in Switzerland. So they're like, we're going to bring in two more interns. Could you supervise their cases as part of your work? We're going to pay you. Because those two students were still in grad school.
Taylor (27:53)
Like a satellite location.
Huh.
Faith (28:15)
And I was like, sure, I can do that. I didn't really know what I was doing, but I was like, sure, I could do that. I knew enough. And I would check with my clinical supervisor, like, I'm doing this. Do you think it's legit? She's like, it's legit. You're fine. And then she would help me out. So then I had to then it was fully everything was paid at that point forward as of the summer of 2019. Yeah.
Taylor (28:26)
Yeah.
What they pay you in each.
Faith (28:42)
So my hourly rate was $150. Or Swiss francs. So I would go to, yeah, and that was totally doable. They were like, yep. And I was like, maybe I should have negotiated for more. So I would go up to the mountains one day a week. I'd be there all day. I'd see eight clients in a day. They would pay me a day rate based on my hourly amount.
Taylor (28:44)
Okay.
Mmm, that's it.
Faith (29:09)
And then GEMS, I would go to GEMS two days and they would do that. Same thing, pay me my hourly rate for two days to come in. And then I got connected, the final step was I got connected with a therapy group called Lausanne Therapy Space, they're amazing. And it's a shared office space of expat social workers and therapists who all share a space and then meet with clients privately. So I started paying them rent and then collaborating with them.
and referring to them and all of that. And so then I had three kind of income streams at that point.
Taylor (29:47)
You started doing there, you started like going
there and seeing your own clients. Yeah, you went from no job to essentially three jobs.
Faith (29:53)
So it got a little wild. So yeah, to like a lot. Three jobs.
then I added a third school. So I had two schools, my private practice thing. And then I added a third school. And then I had a burnout. I burned out. And that was during 2020, right? Because 2020 was COVID. Everybody needed mental health services. Everyone was freaking out. And so I got a lot of.
Taylor (30:06)
I did not know that.
Faith (30:21)
There was a lot of need.
And so I ended up dropping the mountain school and then just doing two, going back to two schools as a way to kind of say this is too much for me. But same system, they paid my private rate and it was through my, actually no, third school I went on staff. They actually hired me on staff as Lakota International School. I worked for them for two years on staff.
Taylor (30:36)
Wow.
Faith (30:53)
as they're like in school therapist. Yeah. So it was dynamic. It was a lot of different layers. It was more hybrid. It wasn't all private practice because I wanted to get my clinical hours. So I wanted to stay in schools to count those hours. So it took me about three years to get all my clinical hours instead of like the traditional two years. It might take some people. But yeah, that's.
Taylor (30:56)
Wow.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Interesting. Wow. What were some of the, I don't know, challenges that you faced in the schools or maybe private practice that you feel like? there anything that was really unique to being a U.S., you know, being American? What did that look like?
Faith (31:22)
that happened.
Yeah. One thing that,
yeah, one thing, it's not that there were really any challenges. I actually think there were not a lot of challenges. And I think that's what was surprising is how easy it actually was to start a business there, to actually get referrals. And I think I was thinking about that too. And I was thinking about what made me, why was this so fast growing? Like what made this so successful? And I think,
Taylor (31:56)
Mm-hmm.
Faith (32:12)
The things that were being said to me in grad school as barriers actually were my advantage there. I was American. I spoke English. 40 % of Switzerland is expats. And there was a huge, huge need for mental health services for youth. And I think that there is just not a lot of education, which makes sense, in the United States about what the mental health climate looks like in Europe. And I gotta be honest with you, the US is much better. We have much better
Taylor (32:24)
Wow, that's a big number.
Faith (32:42)
resources here, which is surprising for people to hear. Because we think, look at our mental health system and we're like, this is horrible. Like people can't get in, there's no services. Right. And so going abroad, I was like, it's gonna be better. Right. And I just think that that's not, that wasn't my experience. It was actually really poor mental health services. And so there was a huge need for English speaking therapists, which I was told that's gonna work against you. It actually worked in my favor.
Taylor (32:49)
Mm-hmm. Right, this is garbage.
Fascinating.
Faith (33:12)
And then I think also getting into international schools legitimized me in communities as vetted, as like you're vetted and then it opened me up to communities and a referral source. so that, clients.
Taylor (33:12)
Mmm.
Yeah.
in terms of you getting those like getting clients for your private practice.
Faith (33:31)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Taylor (33:32)
Fascinating.
Faith (33:33)
And so the last year I was there, I was very much more private and I was only in one school. So I pulled back on another school and I was just a staff at Lacote and then I would work privately because I didn't have to work Fridays then. So I started to take Fridays off and was able to kind of balance myself out a bit better.
Taylor (33:49)
Mm-hmm.
Faith (33:56)
But I actually think getting into a community, getting into a group, getting into schools, my being American, being trained really, really well as a clinician, all those things actually benefited me. There was no real, I'm trying to think of barriers. There was actually, I can't think of one barrier.
Taylor (34:06)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
That's wild. Wow. I think it was
just like when I hear your story.
You just had to break into the mental health community, you know, and I think you just being brave and, and finding this person, you know, that guy that had his degree from Michigan and, reaching out to him and just being like, Hey, this is me. This is my situation. Can we meet up? You know, that's really going out on a limb and, putting yourself out there. And then that kind of.
I feel like just catapulted you to, yeah, like him connecting you with all these other therapists and then you connected with that one therapist who then got you the interview at this school, you know, and so I think,
It's just a nice concrete example of how to network because I think, you know, we talk about how networking is so important in just our profession and stuff. And I think that can be so ambiguous at times of like, okay, network, but how do I do, how do I do that? Like, what should I do? And so I think it's interesting. It's just a great example to maybe find someone who's doing what you want to do and message them and just say, Hey, you're
where I want to be. Can we talk and hopefully they're open to it. And maybe there are social workers like I was just thinking, maybe there are people, know, Brett and I want to travel someday, you know, our nine months sabbatical someday and working abroad sounds definitely fascinating. And I just like had the thought of there's probably someone doing what I would want.
someone working as a social worker who's American in the country that I would want to work in, know? And so just trying to find those people. And then hopefully they can kind of like support you in getting to where you want to be, you know?
Faith (36:27)
Yeah,
and I think that that's such a good point. And I actually wrote that down, was like networking with the people who are doing what you want to do, right? Like finding, and that was part of it. I saw the common thread of, we both have our, not LCSWs, we're both masters of social work, because I was MSW at that point, right? And then just saying, being curious, how did you do that? And then also I just think,
Taylor (36:35)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
MS, right. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Faith (36:58)
because that person had been in my position at some point, he had mentioned that. You call it the dangling spouse. That's the common term in the ex-bite community, which is your spouse gets a job abroad and you're the dangling spouse. You're the person who goes with them. They just kind of hear, like, I'm following my spouse. And so he was a dangling, I believe his dangling spouse. And he was like, what am
Taylor (37:19)
just flapping in the wind trying to find your way.
Faith (37:28)
am going to do? Right?
I think when you've been through it and then you've been successful, you really want to help other people who are going through what you're going through. And so he was very eager to help me. So was everybody else because they were all dangling spouses. Now that I think about it, like the common theme, a lot of them had come to Switzerland because they were following a partner. And then they were highly qualified in their home country. But how can I make something happen here? And so I think then I was able to help a few.
Taylor (37:38)
Right. Mm-hmm.
fascinating.
Mmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Faith (38:03)
other American expats open their own businesses there and got a very similar reaction like this is possible you can do that and I'm like I know I know this is crazy but it is and don't we but now looking back I'm like actually I don't think I wait like I only waited yeah four months I guess yeah right I remember feeling a lot of feelings about sharing
Taylor (38:09)
good for you, Faith.
You're like, yes. And don't wait as long as I did.
You didn't wait that, that's not that long, yeah.
I have.
Faith (38:32)
it with people in the US. Feeling like I needed to keep it a secret because of the taboo aspect of it. I would tell them about working in schools and having the clinical supervisor and being all legit. But then the private work was very much...
Taylor (38:35)
like who were in the US?
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
What's taboo about that?
I'm curious your feelings or just thoughts.
Faith (38:57)
in the United, from my,
yeah, yeah, and I don't know if I'm right about this, but from my, message I got out of grad school was,
private practice is something that you start after you have your LCSW, once your credentials, right? All of that, and it's like when you're 10 years into the field, right? That's when you're ready to do private practice. And so I felt like a massive and massive imposter syndrome, and also like I was doing something wrong and unethical. And I remember talking a lot about that with my clinical supervisor, and she was super encouraging and was really
and was like we got approval from the state you're good like here's the letter like yeah
Taylor (39:46)
That's such a good point. Like the state doesn't have any problems with it. Why do we have
this societal issue about that in our community?
Faith (39:56)
Yeah,
and so I also had never made that amount of money before and I felt weird about that. And there was just like a lot of feelings about something's gotta be wrong here. This is like, I was a little superstitious of like, this is not normal. And I, yeah, so, and then I remember.
Taylor (40:09)
Kinda too good to be true.
Faith (40:18)
I took my licensing exam abroad also. So I took it in France. And all of these things are not things that we talk about. It is possible for you to get your clinical hours abroad. It is possible for you to take your LCSW exam abroad. And those, yeah.
Taylor (40:22)
Hmm.
I had no idea about the LC-XW exam. did that look
like? How did you...
Faith (40:38)
So that was
nuts. And also, I am not native French speaking, so I did this all.
being like very, it's really struggling in French. So I just want to encourage anybody out there who's like, she must have had some French. No, like I was, I struggled. I learned, I really tried. I got laughed at a couple times. It was rough, but, but yeah, I did it all, not, so it is possible for people who only speak English. Anyways, so I, I literally,
Taylor (40:55)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Hmm.
Faith (41:16)
I literally googled it. Is it possible to this clinical exam abroad? I'll try to find the...
the website I used because I, that'd be great to link that in the podcast for anybody else who's looking to do that. But there was a testing center, an international testing center. There was one in the UK, there was one in like Germany, Denmark, and then was one in France. There was none in Switzerland. So I, and then there was like one in Canada. And I thought, oh, I'm going to have to fly like to the UK or to Canada to do it. But France is obviously closer. I could just take the train across the border. And I went and took it in Nice and
Taylor (41:31)
Mm-hmm.
Cool.
Faith (41:57)
It was very hard to find the testing center. And when I got there, it felt a little shady. I'm going to be honest, I walked in and I was like, hello? Like, was, am I in the right spot? And they're like, take a seat, take a seat, take a seat. And I was like, okay. And I was trying to understand the directions in French of when to start my exam. And then it switched to English. But I was in a testing room with all sorts of people taking, who were expats, taking
Taylor (42:18)
my gosh. nice.
Faith (42:26)
like for the GED or for, I don't know, other types of academics. And I still kind of felt like, this gonna go, like, this is gonna make it back to Wisconsin? Like...
Taylor (42:30)
Fascinating.
Is this gonna make it back to my board to get me my license?
Faith (42:42)
I was like, is this
gonna happen? And it worked, it all worked. It went to them, they approved me. So that was a huge relief, because I knew coming back to the United States then, I was in LCSW, I could charge insurance. I felt more legitimized.
Taylor (42:58)
Legit. Mm
Yeah. I'm curious. think I can't remember if we talked about it in this episode or we talked about it before, but just the the fact that you said you guys were going there, you were planning to only be there for one year, just kind of like see what happens. So, you know, it's like I love that we were able to talk about like the specifics of like what you did and everything, but also just.
How was it living there? Like, did you like it? Obviously, after one year, you decided to say what? You were there for three years? Like, talk to us about just your decision, your guys' decision to stay longer.
Faith (43:37)
that's a really great question. My spouse's sister had lived abroad before us.
She was an international teacher in Ecuador. so I remember her giving us this advice. And it was, the first year is hard. The second year, you finally feel adjusted. The third year, you start to have fun. And the fourth year, you just don't want to leave. it was, I remember having that in the back of my mind. And I remember calling her during that time when I was really struggling. And her being like, listen, it's rough. It's rough. You got this, though. Hang in there. It's going to get better. It's going to get. And don't get me wrong.
and it's gorgeous, super beautiful, it's super fun, like all of that is great, but if you don't have a community and you don't have a life and you're just sitting in here like, and you're scared to go out because you don't speak the language and you're kind of like, where's my grocery store? You know, it gets a little, it's hard. And so.
The first six months were difficult, then it started, once I kinda had a thing for myself, I felt much better. Felt much better, and so internship and jobs, and I started to meet people who were similar to me, and were encouraging and fun, and we would go out and stuff, and so.
Taylor (44:45)
Like your internship and then the jobs and stuff. Totally.
Faith (44:57)
The first year, just felt like what my sister-in-law had shared was so true. By the end of the first year, we were like, we have to do a second year. Like, this feels, we're just getting started. Mm-hmm, yeah, like we're just getting adjusted. And so the second year was really fun, really fun, but then the pandemic hit. And so we also were not gonna move during the pandemic. That just was not, that sounded like a nightmare.
Taylor (45:07)
Yeah, like we're just getting, we're just getting our, feet under us, you know? Yeah.
Right.
Faith (45:27)
air and so I think we also felt let's stay because this is just not the time globally to go move back home and we didn't want to honestly we didn't want to we were having fun we wanted to travel we were both making good salaries yeah
Taylor (45:41)
You guys were seeing the sights, man. I remember seeing those photos just hiking and traveling and
I'm like, Faith is living her best life.
Faith (45:48)
Well,
and I think we always had it in the back of our mind that it was temporary and so we wanted to make the most of it and you know, I think also because it was COVID nobody these countries nobody was traveling to so we were we we would get it was cheaper, you know, like it was easier. We were already there.
Taylor (45:56)
Yeah.
Wow. There weren't that many people.
Yeah.
Faith (46:13)
It was very,
yeah, was super nice. So we had a really good time actually traveling because there wasn't a lot of people traveling during that time. And of course, it was annoying with all the different vaccines and this and that and trying to navigate all of that COVID restrictions. But because we were already in Europe.
a lot of those restrictions, you know, they had some cross border things that you could do, right? Because we were living there. So we then, yeah, we just both really loved it. And there was the point, I remember us having a conversation about staying and living there and like making it permanent. And do we want to be permanently abroad in Switzerland? And it just got to the point where for for us, language did become more of an issue where I knew
Taylor (46:52)
Mm-hmm. Wow.
Faith (47:02)
if I wanted to have children or if we wanted to do that or if we wanted to buy a home or if we wanted to be there permanently like we would have to assimilate fully and be learning French and I think that could have been possible but very difficult.
Taylor (47:12)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Faith (47:23)
And also, being in an expat community, a lot of your friends are expats and they're temporary. So we had a lot of friendships that we had built that then those people had moved. And so then you're constantly rebuilding your community, which is great if you're not going to be there long term. But if you're going to be there long term, it's very hard to have a stable community unless you're going to assimilate. Yeah.
Taylor (47:33)
Hmm.
Like in an expat community? Yeah, right. It's like you would need to
have like Swiss community who like we live there.
Faith (47:50)
Swiss community and we only made one Swiss friend while we were there.
the reason for that is we heard from multiple people. Swiss people are lovely. We love them. They're great. But they somebody use this analogy. They said they're like coconuts. They're hard on the outside and sweet on the inside. So you just got to get through the shell and then they're sweet. It takes a long time to get in. So we ended up making friends with a lot of expats. And so our community was constantly changing. The language became a barrier. It was after the pandemic we were missing
Taylor (48:07)
and it just takes a long time to get in.
Okay.
Faith (48:25)
lived that time and that season to the fullest. My husband was also looking to change work. He was like, this is getting a little long for a postdoc. Most years, most, most people postdoc for two years and I postdoc for four. So I feel like maybe I should, you know. So he was, you know, it was like he would have to find a job in Switzerland, like on actual. So we might have to move cantons. We might have to move to like the German speaking region or.
Taylor (48:27)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Hmm,
interesting.
Yeah.
Fascinating, yeah.
I have one more question before we get into, I'll share some of the international social work resources before I do that. obviously having your husband get a job over there, ideal having your spouse, super easy, but do you have any...
Faith (49:11)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Taylor (49:26)
ideas or recommendations on people who it's like, okay, well, I don't have a spouse to, you know, get me a work visa. Like, how would someone at least in Switzerland, obviously, that's your experience. How would they do that? Is it easy to get a work permit there? Yeah.
Faith (49:32)
Yeah.
It's not. Switzerland
is one of the harder, I believe, again, I can't say this with 100 % accuracy, I do believe it's one of the harder places to get a work permit just because even within Europe it's pretty competitive. A lot of people want to work in Switzerland. And part of that is because it's like beautiful, but it's also, they pay very well. In Switzerland, the Swiss franc is stronger than the US dollar. Like there's just like a lot of, you know.
Taylor (49:46)
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Mmm, interesting.
Well-paying, gotcha.
Yeah,
yeah.
Faith (50:08)
They're not a part of the European Union. There's like the Schengen agreement. They have a lot of agreements with different countries, obviously in Europe, but they kind of do their own thing.
Taylor (50:16)
So maybe Switzerland
would be little harder than maybe most other countries that people would want to travel to to get a work visa. Yeah.
Faith (50:26)
Yeah, I would
say.
I have a couple thoughts on this. One, if you want to work in Switzerland, look at international schools. They do hire Americans to be counselors. So if you're looking for social workers or teachers or anything like that. My husband's, my sister-in-law, she got abroad, got a work visa by being an international teacher. So if you are willing to do counseling or some sort of social work in a school setting, the school then would be your sponsor.
Taylor (50:51)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
Faith (50:59)
And you could get a visa that way.
Taylor (51:00)
that's a good in, yeah.
Faith (51:02)
And you could get a permit B through that and potentially do a side practice with your job at school. Kind what I did. yeah, so that's one option. The other is to look at international schools. Switzerland is known for their international schools, right? It's like, Swiss international schools. I didn't know that before I went. I learned that when I was there. Kim Jong-un or something went to. Really?
Taylor (51:07)
Mm-hmm.
interesting.
Fascinating.
Faith (51:30)
really high up leaders who are a friend of, as children went to international schools. It's a very fascinating world over there. But they're known for their international schools, and so there's a lot of them. And so that would be my first thought is...
Taylor (51:32)
huh.
Huh.
Yeah.
So are they pumping out dictators over there or what?
No?
Faith (51:51)
Yeah, basically, basically. basically. Yeah,
it's where the rich and wealthy in Europe go. That's where their kids go. Like, I don't know. That's our maybe that won't make it in the podcast. We'll see. But yeah, it's it's wild. So.
Step number one, maybe international schools could sponsor you. The other option is there are a couple countries that are hemorrhaging mental health therapists who are actually, actually trying to recruit social workers. I believe one is New Zealand and Australia, and the other one is Norway. So I...
we were thinking about moving to Norway. I was like, maybe we don't move back to the US, maybe we to another international country. So I think that those might be possibilities to see where in the world are they looking or actually recruiting social workers from the US and then look at opportunities that way.
Taylor (52:45)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Faith (53:02)
The other thought I have is getting your master's abroad. So you would have a student visa, at least what I would assume is you'd have a student visa so you wouldn't be able to work. But you could be getting your education abroad as long as you check with the university to make sure that that master's then translates back to the United States. You get a job.
Taylor (53:13)
Right.
Yeah.
Totally. And then maybe they can help, you know, it's like the networking thing. You go to school there, you meet people, you really like it there.
Maybe someone can help you kind of figure out the visa thing and, you know, work there.
Faith (53:34)
Yeah.
Yeah. Or then maybe you do an internship and they hire you afterwards and they're your sponsor. Just like in the United States, believe we, the employer sponsors the person who wants to work. It's very similar abroad. Yeah. That's what I get. I don't know. Do you have any thoughts on that, based on the research you've done?
Taylor (53:40)
Mm-hmm.
Right. Yeah. Cool. Nice. I love it.
yeah, so some links, the I'm just gonna, I feel like I'm not gonna read out everything literally that I found. I'll put this there's an affiliated blog post for every podcast episode. And so all the resources will be there. And the blog posts will be linked in the show notes. But I talked to so joiner who's a remote social worker yesterday's shout out her
We I was talking about her about something different, but she shared with me that she got she did a concentration in international. Let me see what she called it international development through her master's program. So at Washington University, they have a concentration that's international, social and economic development. And so that's really cool. It says they describe it as students in this concentration are prepared to work with communities, organizations,
and governments in the global south to create solutions that improve people's lives in a global context. So I think that's one thing, you know, if you're...
already if you already know that you're interested in pursuing international social work, trying to see if there's, you know, a program near you or maybe you move so that you can kind of get integrated with that community because, again, networking professors are going to have connections, maybe you can do an internship abroad, who knows. So that's one, one program, I'll try to list some other ones that I found. And then
an organization called Women in International Affairs. So their description is a digital membership platform disrupting mainstream narratives about gender, youth, equity, and career development in the international industry. Building an international career is hard, but the right social capital, your network and access to opportunities will make the difference. So they have like mentorship and industry experts that can kind of help you, it seems.
you know, pursue a career abroad. So check that out. And then two places I want to highlight for finding jobs. There's another one that I will add in the post, but Impact Pool seems like that's a really popular.
job board that has jobs from organizations around the world. was kind of clicking through it before we got on and I went to Croatia recently so I was just like, let me see are there some jobs in Croatia? clicked, yep.
there's two jobs. mean, Croatia is really small. So I wasn't expecting for there to be many. It did say that I would need to speak Croatian and English. So just being mindful about like the language requirements, but they have over 4000 jobs on that website from yeah, organization from all over the world. And then the US Department of State, they have a
I mean, there's a lot of different jobs through the Department of State, but one that kind of stood out to me was their Foreign Service Officer. And they have like different, there's five different career tracks for the Foreign Service Officer. And so there's like a Consular Officer and this like their description, it says they facilitate adoptions, help evacuate Americans, combat fraud to protect our borders, fight human trafficking. Fascinating.
management officer, resourceful, creative, action oriented, go to leaders responsible for all embassy operations from real estate to people to budget. So there's a couple others on there. So I will add those. But yeah, it was kind of I learned some things doing research for this this episode. And yeah.
Faith (57:59)
Yeah,
two other ones I just thought of is the Red Cross sometimes has opportunities. then also, which I can find the link and we can add in. And then also the International Refugee.
Taylor (58:03)
Okay.
Faith (58:17)
portion of the UN. They have even headquarters, some headquarters in the United States, but that could be an opportunity where you start to work in the United States, but then they have an international placement where you then work abroad for a bit. So working in organizations or nonprofits that have a global impact is probably gonna increase your opportunities for jobs abroad. And being connected with an organization, I think, is also
Taylor (58:40)
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely.
Faith (58:47)
a really good step so that you have those systems in place for sponsorships or for connections and you're not just kind of rolling the dice like I did where I was definitely just rolling the dice and like hoping I could make it work and it did end up working but it was a little bit of a different path yeah yeah
Taylor (59:00)
Yeah.
Totally. Yeah, absolutely. I love that. Awesome. Well, wow, this
episode, we did not mean for this episode to be this long. And y'all, we are not done because we need to talk about our money moment. We've got more for you. We're talking about our money moment. We can get into it real quick. so my money moment this week, my, you know.
Faith (59:21)
We got more for ya.
Taylor (59:32)
people who are new, insight, failure, tip, just, you know, we're trying to normalize conversation around money here. So we're just sharing every episode our little money moment. So Faith shared with me a video. I told you this was going to be probably my money moment. Faith shared with me a video. Let's do it together. Do you know you're? You're going to do it.
Faith (59:47)
Yeah. You stole mine, basically. You stole my money money. Let's do this. is our, I don't have one other than that.
Yeah. Shared money money.
Taylor (59:54)
Okay, perfect. I love it. It's a shared money moment. So Faith shared
a video with me about how companies are really just over, I feel like it's essentially was an overuse of subscriptions, right? And I think the video is really highlighting the subscriptions where you buy a product. And one of the examples they were using was a printer.
HP printer, you buy it, but then you have to have a subscription to actually use the printer. And it was like, yeah, use the ink. So you would have a subscription and it would know it would notify whoever of like, this printer is getting low on ink.
you know, they need a new shipment of ink. And so if you didn't have that ink subscription, then you couldn't use your printer. And so just different things like that. think one example that I thought was wild was their I don't know what car company, but
to use the heated seats in the car you had to pay you know maybe $27 a year or if you wanted to use different features in the car you had to pay a subscription and so just this idea of you're buying this product you're hoping that you can just you don't want to pay more to continue to use the product um so just
the idea that we're just being overloaded with subscriptions. Yeah. What was your takeaways?
Faith (1:01:27)
That it's changing. I thought the really interesting point was that it's changing the way we interact with daily Things basic needs and all of a sudden and we're gonna have to be charged for using things that are basic needs like are we gonna have to be charged for using the ice dispenser in our fridge soon are we gonna have to be charged for Using you know opening they I think they gave the grout the example of opening your garage or you have to be charged for you know it's changing the way and the psychology behind how we interact
Taylor (1:01:35)
Mmm.
Right.
Faith (1:01:57)
with products and once you buy it you don't ever really buy it it's a subscription based use and I think that's super dangerous and if you have a house like obviously you should be able to open your garage like you should you know if that's where things go it was a little dystopian I'm gonna be honest a little like the story but it was also a little felt a little real so yeah
Taylor (1:01:58)
Yeah.
Yeah, that's so weird.
Mm hmm. It totally. Yeah.
Yeah, and
one person, you know, they had a they had clips of, you know, TikTok videos or reels in the reel inception. But they one lady was just like, this is nothing but greed. And I just really
Faith (1:02:35)
Yeah.
Taylor (1:02:44)
that really resonated because that's how I was feeling. Just this is a money hungry, you know, if Tesla is like requiring you to buy a subscription to use the iPad in the car, it's just like, really, dude, you're one of the richest men on the planet. Why do I need a subscription to use my car that I allegedly?
Faith (1:03:02)
allegedly
allegedly this is all allegedly yeah right
Taylor (1:03:05)
Allegedly. This is all legit. Why do I need a subscription to use the car that I bought? Like that's
wild. So the lady that was kind of, you know, the main talker in the video, she said that.
Was it $300? Most Americans are spending about $300 a month on subscriptions and she said we underestimate how much we're spending. And so I was like, okay, I'm going to look and see how much I'm spending on subscriptions. So what I have is we spend $163 on subscriptions every month.
Yeah, so we pay for Spotify, Peloton, we have a Peloton bike, but we also have to pay to access the classes on the bike, which is sort of similar to what they were talking about. I didn't even like think of it. But when I was looking through the subscriptions, I was like, Peloton is one of those subscriptions. So we do pay for Peloton. And then we pay for Peacock.
I have some Google storage stuff, Amazon Prime. This is also in this price. I've also included our credit card fees because it's sort of a subscription to me because I'm just like, it renews every year. We pay for Apple TV, know, Costco. So yeah, what about you? How much you guys?
Faith (1:04:45)
So I don't know how much we pay in subscriptions. I was just like jotting down a few that I know we have, which one is Spotify so we can be in the mountains and listen to music offline. So that's one of the reasons that pushed us into that. And then because I don't know why in the United States we still can't figure out internet. Like I don't get why internet isn't everywhere. Anyways, a whole nother thing. So we had to get Spotify offline so that we could listen to music.
Taylor (1:04:57)
Mm-hmm.
Hehehehehe
Faith (1:05:15)
And then I know that for us when we were abroad we really only had one subscription for like streaming movies and TV shows and it was Netflix and we recently got rid of Netflix because we were kind of disappointed in some of the options on there and so we switched to Amazon because we already had Amazon Prime and then do they have like what is it is like a streaming
Taylor (1:05:27)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
They just have an Amazon Prime
app, yeah, where they have movies and shows and stuff, yeah. Right.
Faith (1:05:43)
Yeah, so we already had Amazon for deliveries and
things. So then we're like, well, let's just do that. And so I know we have those two, and I think that's it. I'll check with my spouse. There's probably more that maybe we have, but those are the two that I can think of. I don't know what that is. I think it's like, what, $10 for Spotify or maybe $12 for Spotify and then.
Taylor (1:05:51)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
We pay... I want to say we
pay $16.99. Yeah. For two. Yeah, that's a family pen.
Faith (1:06:12)
maybe that is. You can do like a family. I don't know what it is for two. Yeah, we
probably we probably do that then. And then Amazon, think is for the Amazon Prime, but with also the video portion of it. I don't know what that is. Like twenty nine a month or something.
Taylor (1:06:24)
Mm-hmm.
I have, let's see,
Amazon Prime, it's $11.58 a month. There you go. Yeah.
Faith (1:06:34)
There you go. So we're not crazy with subscriptions.
But I could totally see, and we're really good about being, like, we like this show, we're getting a subscription for this streaming service so we can watch that show and then we're done. And that's partially my partner being really analytical and keeping track of all the things. mean, like, delete, and he'll know the dates. But it's really hard. I could totally see this getting out of control. Yeah.
Taylor (1:06:50)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
It's hard. Yeah, I'm going to
share. have a subscription tracker on Google Sheets. So that's why I knew that our Amazon Prime is $11.58 a month because it breaks it down yearly, monthly, and then it'll tell you every month what your subscription, like the price that you're paying every month. So it's super helpful because I then
Faith (1:07:22)
But see, I don't even know.
That is helpful. I don't even know
what we pay. Right. So that's helpful to be like, need to know exactly what you pay for something.
Taylor (1:07:35)
Yeah,
and then I have like a little bucket in our high yield savings account for subscriptions and so our monthly, you know, 163 every month I just well, it's a little anyways, the numbers I don't want to get all make it all convoluted on this on this episode. But anyways, the amount of money that we need every month, I just put in.
this bucket in Ally and just have that money there because some of our expenses are yearly and so it's not actually coming out every month but I want to make sure that we're saving for it so that when that bill hits, you know, our credit card bill, $95 a year, I want to make sure we have the money for that so then I'll pull it from that. So yeah, I will share the link to that.
Faith (1:08:23)
Well, and when people make budgets, we...
That's great, yeah. When people make budgets, they don't think about subscriptions as... Like, I... As like a bill. You know? Like, you know? But it's a bill. It's a bill you're paying. And so like, it should be in your budget. It should be tracked. It should be... Uh-huh. Right.
Taylor (1:08:34)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Totally. Yes. Should be accounted for. Yeah,
absolutely.
Alright y'all, we've talked way too much. My gosh, if you've made it this far, we love you. And if you love this podcast, I don't know what number this is for us, but please give us a review, like, whatever, follow, all of the things because that really helps us and we'd really appreciate it. thanks for being here. Bye.